Episode 457 Scott Adams: Offering to Publicly Deprogram Anti-Trumpers Suffering TDS While You Watch

Date: 2019-03-19 | Duration: 51:11

Topics

Taking calls from never-Trumpers to deprogram them realtime What’s your #1 complaint about President Trump? Can I can debunk your #1 never-Trump complaint, realtime?

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## Transcript

[0:04]

hello this is a special coffee with scott adams but this time without the coffee um i just want to try a little public experiment and the public experiment looks like this hey jack thanks for joining me and tweeting it out um i want to do a public demonstration to see and i don't know if this will work so we'll find out at the same time to see if i can deprogram an anti-trumper and i don't know how this will go it'll be a live demonstration and the the proposition is that somebody is suffering from something like an hallucination it's either all the people who are opposed to the president or most of them or it's all the people who support the president or most of them and i want to see if we can
can solve that mystery of who's actually having an hallucination

[1:04]

having an hallucination or is it both could it be that both sides are hallucinating but in just different ways so um you have an invitation that you can see uh on your screen to become a guest so i'd like a guest who will come on in an audio form but i'm only going to take people who are anti-trumpers and here are the ground rules the ground rules is are the ground rules are that i might interrupt you but it'll only be for clarification or because you've changed the subject and you're you're ranting but because i don't have a time limit i'll always let you complete your thought so if i interrupt you just know that you'll have time to complete your thought uh i just want to keep on topic all right i have only one volunteer that i see if anybody else wants to come on please join but robert if you're not an anti-trumper i'll i will uh move on to someone who is so he can complete the experiment

[2:07]

he can complete the experiment robert are you there
robert i can hear you yeah robert hi hi are you an anti-trumper yes i am um what would be your top uh let's say issues
my biggest issue is the way he's polarized the country different races feeling you know black people feeling certain ways towards white people and polarizing where where would if you saw a list of the public's priorities from top to bottom where would that be on the list do you think like would that be in the top five well i see the president as like a leader so someone who sort of
brands the country and sets the tone for the environment and so robert robert robert i asked a direct question

[3:08]

direct question all right the direct question is do you think that the issue of the polarization is in the top five of issues that the country cares about i would say so i would say maybe even top three okay um i don't know if that's the case but it could be in the top five so so we've established that the the country cares about this issue and and your um proposition is that the president is primarily to blame for that is that correct yes 100 well let's pick any issue in which the president did the wrong thing so that we can see how this plays out
out so we can see how his mistakes cause problems what would be a topic or an issue in which the president did the wrong thing and polarize the country what's your what's your best example of that in his opening speech where he announced he was running when he said uh they're bringing drugs they're bringing crime they're rapists i think that really the wording of that just pitted

[4:09]

really the wording of that just pitted mexicans and latin americans against him in a very like dramatic and emotional way so imagine if you will that the media had reported that factually without opinion do you would it have sounded something like this the president suggests that there's too much crime coming across the border uh and used hyperbole like he always does on everything would that be an accurate statement of what the president did he said there was too much crime coming across the border because i don't think you're suggesting that people believe he was saying that the children and the women coming across the border were rapists right you're not saying that nobody well i do think he frames it as it's all criminals and ignores the fact that women and children are finding better lives here but do you think that anybody who heard his statement believed that he meant that they were

[5:10]

believed that he meant that they were all criminals do you think anybody interpreted it that way like oh they're all criminals do you think anybody thought that well you mentioned women and children but a lot of the legal immigrants are men and they're hard-working men that are law-abiding citizens so i think he did refer to those men as criminals don't don't you believe that everyone who heard that interpreted in their mind as obviously he's not talking about everybody he's not talking about all the men did did you interpret it to mean that he thought they were all criminals i interpreted to mean as he thought many were criminals and we all know illegal immigrants in our daily lives and that's just a bad way to look at people so you're saying you're saying that you worded it wrong but is there anybody including you who interpreted it to mean that they're that all the men are rapists did you didn't interpret it that way did anybody

[6:12]

so here's my point uh and for for those of you at home you remember the long pause talk about that later but if the media had reported it without opinion it would have sounded like this the president said uh that there was too much crime coming across the border especially rapes and violent crime um would that be accurate to say the president says there's too much crime coming across the border would that be an accurate statement
i guess so but my point is it's not about what he's trying to say it's about what he says and the way he worded things down but but my point is that your understanding of his statement as a racist statement is based on how the reporters framed it not based on how you interpret it if you had been in the audience and you heard him say there's too much crime coming across they're sending rapists and murderers would your interpretation have been my

[7:14]

would your interpretation have been my god he just said every person is a rapist and a murderer coming across the board you wouldn't you wouldn't have interpreted that that way would you well the liberal media is bound to see the worst parts in his speech so if he had just worded it the way that you're wording things where he could have said many people are criminals bringing drugs instead of saying like they're rapists they're bringing drugs that's on trump so i would agree with you
you that the way he said it left an opening for the media to interpret it in the least favorable sense do you agree with that statement that the way he said it was a mistake because it allowed the media to interpret it poorly in the worst possible sense right yeah and that's just in my opinion the most glaring example he's done it in many different topics but but you would also agree under that interpretation that if the media had been a credible player and simply reported the facts there would be no problem is that true

[8:16]

there would be no problem is that true because it took two parties it took trump to say it in a way that made him vulnerable to that interpretation but it also took them to take an interpretation they knew not to be true so who was lying in this example was the media lying because they framed it as if he really said they were all rapists and murderers when any individual who is not part of the press if you had been in the audience you would have said well obviously he's not talking about all of them just that there's too much of it wouldn't you say that the liar in the story is the press well did the press ever say trump said all because i don't recall that the the way they report it suggests that he that he means that there's an unusual problem with mexicans so that's way that's the way the press reports it did trump ever say there's an unusual problem with mexicans did he say that because i think you

[9:16]

did he say that because i think you would agree that the press says the way he says it suggests that there's extra rape and extra crime because they're mexican but did trump ever say that he i i think he agreed he did but by focusing on the immigrants that are crossing the border as opposed to things like overstate visas he did say that he is saying that that is a unique problem that the mexicans coming and the latin americans comment are a unique problem well you didn't say that that's correct now uh you've heard the statistic that uh immigrants to this country have a lower crime rate than the citizens who are already here you've heard that right yeah i've heard that it doesn't does that include the ones the visa overstays which are as you pointed out are maybe most most of them i'm not sure if it's most or it's a big part but the visa overseas are in that number of the people who have a low crime rate is that correct yeah i would think so all right now the

[10:18]

yeah i would think so all right now the group that has the visa overstays are mostly people who could afford a plane ticket and knew how to get on a plane and come to this country legally and then they overstayed would you imagine that a group that can afford plane tickets and can work through all the paperwork do you think that they would have a high crime rate or a low crime rate
i don't i wouldn't know how to answer that i have no way of knowing oh let me leave the witness a little bit those people can at least afford a plane ticket so they they have resources compared to let's say people trying to cross the border with literally nothing the clothes in the back that's all they have they can't afford a plane ticket so wouldn't you say in general the people who have resources they can get a visa to work here which means they have an education and a skill they can afford a plane ticket it would make sense that they would have among the lowest crime rates you could imagine right because they don't want to be sent back and they're from a group which has low

[11:19]

and they're from a group which has low crime to start educated people who have enough money to buy a plane ticket so when you say that if you're looking at all immigrants that a big part of that is the visa overstays and that group should common sense tells you be very low crime wouldn't you say that's true okay we'll go with that but i don't right what's the point oh okay but look let me just complete the point so that means that the ones coming across the border are probably skewing the average because whatever crime rate there is has to be matched against the fact that the visa overseas probably are very low crime compared to the population is there a reason why both groups can't have a low crime rate i mean people who are spending you know 30 days on a track walking over here they're not going to want to get deported they're going to want to follow the laws too well you've heard the uh the estimates that something like 70 of the women who try to cross the southern border get raped have you heard that statistic i saw a statistic that i think said one

[12:21]

i saw a statistic that i think said one in four one in four so so i i think i've also seen 30 so somewhere between 30 and 70 of all the women who try to get across the border get raped now wouldn't you imagine that among the group that are illegal that it would be rare for them to report a crime against themselves because if they report the crime they might get deported so would you agree that the illegal people coming across the border would be unlikely to report a crime if they if they could avoid it would you say well the thing is people who are crossing the border and raping people they're more likely to be coyotes than people who are actually staying and living and starting a life in this country wait they're more likely to be one uh toyotas they're the people who like smuggle people across the board coyotes okay yes so but but you would agree that the illegal immigrants crossing the border are likely to have crimes committed against them that they do not report

[13:23]

against them that they do not report that you would say that it would be true right
yeah they they probably would be less likely to report crimes yeah so so wouldn't it be likely we don't have the estimate but isn't it likely that if given that most crimes are committed against your own group most black crimes are black on black most white crimes or white on white i think that's true but mostly crimes happen within the house crimes happen within your neighborhood crimes happen within your friends so wouldn't you say that in all likelihood the the crime rate of people coming across the border given that we know at least a quarter of them of the women are getting raped and that's just a starting point that that would be a much higher crime rate than the united states no actually you probably wouldn't probably well let me think about this certainly more than one in four women in the united states are sexually molested sometime during their life

[14:24]

molested sometime during their life but if you're only talking about the crossing period you know that's a very concentrated time to have 25 of them or 70 be sexually abused or or you know attacked so wouldn't you say that in all likelihood there is extra crime coming across the borders the southern border compared to the average because you're not counting the visa overstays which are likely very low crime rates educated they can buy a plane ticket they know how to work the system versus the people with no money 25 or maybe 70 are getting raped on the trip and then once they get here they're also they're the low end unemployed group which if they were any other group whether it was hispanics whether it was you know doesn't matter who it is if you're looking at the lowest income group among a larger population the lowest income group is probably going to have a little more crime would you say that's true just in general low

[15:25]

you say that's true just in general low income groups have more crime than high income groups would you say that's true yes i would have to agree with that but the thing is i feel like right now you're defending the wall right now which i would i never said i was against border security i missed against the way trump frank no i'm not i'm not um i'm not defending or not offending defending the border i'm trying to make this simple point that when the president said indicated that there was an unusual amount of crime coming across the border wouldn't you think that that's probably true if you include the fact that the people coming across the southern border are low income so even among mexicans you would expect that the poorest mexicans probably have a higher crime rate than the richest mexicans wouldn't you say
yeah but are we sure that it's the poorest mexicans even coming here well they're the one the ones coming across uh often only have the clothes on

[16:26]

across uh often only have the clothes on their back you know if you're looking at the caravans they literally have nothing so yeah that's that's as poor as you can get if you have nothing now given that and given the fact also that they're unlikely to report crimes against their own group and that we know that either 25 or 75 of them are getting the women are getting raped literally just on the trip to get here forget what happens after they get here because after they cross the border do you think the rape goes down because they're still only hanging around with each other
so given given all that it is true that the pres that the president's initial statement indicated that the crime coming across the border was
was a little special in the sense that there's more of it and that and that it's it's alarming now if it had been reported objectively the president correctly points out that there's a lot of crime coming across the

[17:26]

there's a lot of crime coming across the border and if you don't lump it in with all of the
the uh educated well-off immigrants who are here if you only encounter the people coming across the border turns out it is a higher crime rate not only that but the mexicans coming across the border are a higher crime rate than even mexicans just they're pre it's probably a higher crime rate than mexicans in general because it's especially we're somewhat desperate and poor now let me drop the crime rate into the conversation uh wouldn't you agree that there are millions of illegal immigrants in this country already many of them have children who are going to schools here hard working why does he have to alienate those people and make them fear for their lives that they're going to get deported and separated right yeah good point and that's and you're getting right to the nub of it so the real question is did the president do that by saying an accurate statement or did the

[18:26]

the the accurate statement mean there's there's the border um that's accurate or did the press turn it into a problem by framing it as he must be a racist even though all you said was a true fact there's too much crime coming across the border who's the bad guy in the story the press or the president who said something that's true and also important trump was trying to make a splash his opening speech and he intentionally worded it that way he knew what he was doing that's what i think okay so would you say that your view of the president is based on your assumption of his inner thoughts
because to use your point let me just clarify the question if if the only thing you knew is what he said and then you saw the how the the press has spun it if you believe the president had positive thoughts

[19:27]

positive thoughts you wouldn't have a problem with them would you wouldn't you say okay i know the president has positive thoughts so therefore it must be the press who's spinning this to make it sound bad so is your argument based on your belief about his inner thoughts uh when he said those things well if i do remember correctly he did read that speech off a teleprompter so i would have to assume that he wrote it
it and knew the way he was wearing things so if he wrote it yes i would assume that he did know what he was saying that's a pretty basic assumption to me yeah we all agree that that he chose the words and that that was intentional but that you're going another level which is to say that he had evil intention what would uh but is the evil intention in evidence or can we only see what he did
did and would it be true that if you imagined he had good intentions you wouldn't see anything that bothered you because all you would see is the process you're assuming good intentions and i

[20:29]

you're assuming good intentions and i feel like you're the one assuming what i'm saying i never said evil intentions i just said intentions and he intended to say these things to make controversy and to to push himself politically oh yeah we agree on that don't we don't we agree that he was being provocative and and getting attention we all agree on that i think
yeah yeah exactly so you're agreeing with me that he did it on purpose to get attention and in doing so hurt the view of or hurt the people who are you know most vulnerable in our society in danger of being deported they're scared that they're going to lose their children um well all that's true he definitely scared the people who were here illegally so i would agree with you on that um i don't think that's that's in contention the question is did the split in the country happen because of the way the media reported it

[21:29]

because of the way the media reported it and they also made the same assumption you did that there was some uh racist intention would that be a fair way to characterize what you're saying would you would you say that he had racist intentions
so there are individual pundits on the media and who go on and many of them are persons of color and they're you know prideful people so when they see someone inflaming their base like that that it really gets to them and they do say he's racist and i would agree that that is oftentimes assuming that he's racist but it doesn't change the fact that he made them feel that way all right would you agree with the fact that if the uh would you agree with this statement that if the press had reported it straight without opinion that we would not be divided is that a fair statement
the press has always been reporting on opinion and trump knew that it's not like we were all reporting facts until trump started running for president that's not a thing

[22:31]

president that's not a thing no i i never said it was but so question and i'm not even saying that it's unusual nor am i saying that it's historically unprecedented so i would agree with you with any bad thoughts you have about the press but the question is if the president had said what he said and they had been reported objectively would there be any problem
what is the object objectivity that so the objective the objective way to report it is that there probably is more crime coming across the border than we want and the president has highlighted that as an issue this will definitely scare the people who are already here so that part we all agree on and the president chose he chose that he would scare people who were not legal residents and he would favor people who are legal residents well that so that one thing again

[23:33]

well that so that one thing again okay so if you know illegal mexicans legal south american immigrants they oftentimes know illegal immigrants they have family members who are illegal immigrants so he scared pretty much an entire race in this country i would yeah i would agree with that but i'm against that i i would agree with that but would you agree that the press by lying about it was necessary for you to be scared not you but the the population talked about would you agree that if the press covered it straight we wouldn't have this problem was the press not doing their job the job that they've been doing for decades uh they were not doing the job of reporting it without opinion correct yeah that's what's different about the news you know if you look at the last i don't know ten years or so once the once the news industry could measure exactly what stories got the most clicks they no longer could be objective because objective reporting doesn't get

[24:35]

because objective reporting doesn't get you clicks and then you're out of business so would you agree that the um the news has become more sensationalized and more opinion based maybe than ever would you say that that's a thing yeah and i think trump is responsible for that too in recent years
you would say both sides right both sides are exaggerating uh and would you agree that with our technology which allows us to really measure what gets the most clicks that we can jack people's emotions up in a way that we could not before because we didn't really know what would jack up their emotions and what wouldn't we couldn't really measure it in real time so what do you agree yes yes and that's exactly what trump did too yeah he drafted people's emotions right and
and it made people fear for their lives yeah i i agree that he jacks up people's emotions as you say as well as well as in other ways that is my biggest problem with him one of my biggest problems with him

[25:36]

biggest problems with him well so that's what i'm saying now now let's say we replaced him with another republican would the other republican not be treated like hitler given that all republicans have and they don't all say things like trump says so george bush for example was called hitler repeatedly but i don't believe he ever made any statements that were even close to what trump said would you agree that it wouldn't matter too much what trump said or didn't say because all republicans are treated the same uh at least in in our memory they've all been you know reagan was called hitler both bushes were called hitler um and i don't know if there's been any exception right would you agree that even if trump had said the right things were were now in a news situation where whatever republican it had been even if he used all or she used all the right language they

[26:36]

or she used all the right language they would still be framed pretty much the way trump is being framed wouldn't you say that we would be in the same place if you replace trump i think it's a lot dif i think it's a lot more exaggerated with trump i think you're right yeah it's more exaggerated partly because of his personality but you would agree that the news is far more hyperbolic than it ever has wouldn't you say that that's true i think a lot of that's a result of him though well but yeah i would say that no but what but my point is if you replace them with a mainstream republican don't you think that mainstream republican would say all different things and still get the same treatment by the press do you think that's a true statement that because all prior republicans got the same treatment so would it be fair to say the next republican will still get the same treatment it doesn't matter i don't think it would be the same treatment i think you the

[27:37]

be the same treatment i think you the a different republican would be treated better like i mean you saw that have you seen the mark clip where people what ann coulter goes on and she says trump is the best chance of winning the whole crowd laughs and then people on the panel actually say they like rubio and no one laughs no one ridicules him and marco rubio was obviously a republican so i do think it's different with other republican nominees well but those other republicans were not a threat it would you agree that the republicans that have made it to the presidency have all been called hitler by the left you're you're agreeing with that statement right wouldn't you agree that obama was basically called hitler by fox news and portrayed as this horrible horrible dictator so it is a common thing yeah you're you're agreeing with my point so my point is that that the press in general not just the left press but the press because they can measure what gets your

[28:38]

because they can measure what gets your emotions going that's those are the things you click on that both the left and the right have scared people beyond where the facts imply so let me say this more clearly it's always been true that the news was always doing what the news does the news is always like to be provocative there's always been fake news but what's different and new let's say in the last 10 years is that the news knows exactly what gets your emotions so high it turns off your critical thinking they weren't as good as that before would you say that they've gotten much better at it because they can measure exactly what does it would you say that's true
yeah i guess so yeah all right so if that's true wouldn't it be true that both you and i and everybody watching it wouldn't matter if they're on the left the middle or the right wouldn't it be true that all of us are are
are being influenced by the same media left or right middle doesn't matter to be more emotional and less rational

[29:40]

to be more emotional and less rational than at any time in our well in our experience wouldn't you say that we're more emotional because the news knows how to make us that way in a way i've never knew how to do it before do would you say that's true yeah but it wouldn't be nearly as bad without trump before you could say i'm a republican i voted for mitt romney and the obama supporter wouldn't hate you and think you're racist that never exists let's let's get to that point which is it would have it would not have been as bad if it had been someone else
i would say that that is a question but you cannot make that a statement because we didn't have a different republican president so you don't know i think it's it's definitely true that the um casual way that this president talks creates more opportunity for people to uh take him out of context and to to imagine he's saying more than he's saying so i agree with you completely on that and i would say uh caller i will agree

[30:42]

and i would say uh caller i will agree with you that this president could do that a lot better can we agree on that
caller i think i lost him all right let's see if i can take another caller and try this experience again let's try adam
all right adam will be live in a moment adam
calling from maine um my question is um kind off of uh today's topic but somewhat personal um i'll ask her real quick and even take the answer off the air
air my question scott is would you tell us something about yourself that nobody else knows about you and i'm a very big fan and enjoy your broadcast thank you for taking my question all right well

[31:44]

for taking my question all right well we're trying to talk only to people who are uh anti-trumpers to try to reprogram them but while i'm waiting for that uh the question is what do people not know about me what would be something they don't know
um i am unusually good at sports you wouldn't expect that
yeah that's the best i can do however thank you very much however good you thought i was at sports i'm unusually better than that so it would surprise you uh that's all great to know thank you very much all right thanks okay i think that's enough for today i i loved i was watching a comment go by when i was answering that question and uh one of the comments was uh that i got i got my clock cleaned and in this but let's see your uh
uh let's see your um opinions

[32:45]

let's see your um opinions so you watched my conversation with the the first caller what did you think happened how did you think it went and remember that i've told you that the the long pause is usually cognitive dissonance so two there are a couple of uh well they're more than a couple but there are a few tells for somebody's mind that's rebooting one of those tells is word salad where they start saying sentences that just are weirdly conceptual and they fit together but they don't mean anything so if you see a word salad you're usually you know watching somebody in cognitive distance the other one is an unusual pause because typically in a political conversation you're talking over each other right normally i'm talking somebody's talking over me i'm interrupting that's the normal way a political conversation goes but if you see somebody just somebody says you got crushed uh but if you see somebody just stop and

[33:45]

uh but if you see somebody just stop and and they just are silent for five seconds generally it's cognitive distance not every time sometimes you're just thinking for the next thought but
i disagree with the premise of this debate i don't know what the premise is but all right let's see what shawn ellis has to say
i can hear you yes what what is it you disagree with so the premise of your debate is that since trump speaks in a casual vernacular and off the cuff that he is called a racist and all of these things
and i disagree because they did the same thing to george w bush they did the same thing to ronald reagan and they do it to every republican president no matter what

[34:47]

republican president no matter what they say or how they say it well i i said the same thing that they do it to all the republican presidents the the only difference is there um trump has a willingness to talk about things in unique ways that are sort of non-standard for politics and and that makes him a bigger target because he'll talk about it like a person will talk and when a regular person is talking they they open themselves to all kinds of imperfections in the way they say it and opens them for attack now your your opinion that he doesn't do it
it any worse than say george bush i would say i don't have any facts to make that case but i would uh i would suggest it's likely that because of the non-standard way trump talks i would assume there would be more opportunities to take him out of context because the the politicians tend to stay in their lane and say things like other politicians say and they if they only say things that other politicians say

[35:49]

other politicians say then they know what gets them in trouble and what doesn't and they can avoid it trump doesn't trump will go into any field and say anything he thinks is useful or true uh and so all right but i your your point is taken and i do not have data to refute it so i'm going to let it stay there all right thank you have a nice day you too
too all right um so the the thing i didn't say on the first call is that trump's um casual approach gives him lots of advantages but it does have the advantage that the press can take him out of context and he's he's got to own that so i agree with the first scholar that the president has to own some part of how the public feels but that you can't you can't deny the fact that if the if the news reported it straight there

[36:50]

if the news reported it straight there wouldn't be a problem now we don't live in a world where the news ever reports anything strange so that's on the present the president needs to learn how to say things that are less easy to take out of context he's not good at that but compared to on say
say his first year in office i would say he's a lot better wouldn't you it seems to me that he has improved a great deal in in making sure he doesn't say something that gets him in trouble he's not good at it i'd say he went from bad at it to [Music] starting to get the hang of it but he's definitely not good at it so there's room to grow i would agree with the critics on that that's all i got to say i don't oh let's see if there's any other volunteers that look like they want to get reprogrammed i'm definitely going to take the one with the cat there's a cat icon here

[37:52]

there's a cat icon here if i see a cat in your profile picture hello caller
hi are you an anti-trumper uh sort of yes sort of are do you vote democrat or republican democrat and um what what is your biggest problem with this president well i know you you i don't agree with your laundry list idea that if there's so many problems uh that means you don't have a real complaint i think someone can just have many problems so it's hard to list one problem as the top one but what do you agree let's say let's take as a challenge if you could pick your most solid complaint about this president the number one complaint if i could debunk it in a way that you would agree with would that give you some concern about whether the other ones were real um yeah okay so what is your number one

[38:56]

um yeah okay so what is your number one most solid complaint about this president the one the one that if you somehow amazingly found out it wasn't true or you were thinking about it wrong what's the one thing that would shock you into saying okay i'm just going to look at this other stuff on my laundry list now because i sure didn't think that one was wrong what would be your one best thing if i had to pick one worst thing about trump and his administration i would say the fact that he seems to be in the pocket of uh corporations specifically oil gas energy and willing to and coal and willing to pollute and strike down regulations he appoints lobbyists at the epa from those industries etc well what's the difference between being in the pocket and being pro-business on every kind of american business because you're you're right in saying that he's pro coal pro pro carbon energy but isn't he also pro uh

[39:58]

but isn't he also pro uh apple if they're in this country pro business in this country in every way is there any is there any industry that's a legal industry in this country that he doesn't champion he's champion farmers he's champion in the auto industry um i can't think of anything he hasn't championed that's an actual business in this country so what makes him in the pocket of some of them as opposed to just be a person who is a cheerleader for all of the companies what would be the evidence for them well he's he's for many businesses he's also certainly pro-financial you know industry he's hired tons of goldman sachs mnuchin you know so there's a lot right that's what i'm saying so if somebody is in favor of all industry aren't they just a capitalist
well i'm for not hiring lobbyists and i know obama did it too to some degree so i'm not saying it's a purely republican problem but i'm not for hiring people

[40:59]

problem but i'm not for hiring people who just worked for those industries to then regulate them i think that's bad yeah i think i think we're all uh concerned there's probably nobody who's watching this who doesn't have the same concern that the lobbyists have too much power you know my understanding with the whole lobbyist situation is that everybody wants to get rid of the lobbyists but then you you take the job and you're president and you say okay now i gotta hire some people who really understand this industry and then you find out there aren't any and you end up hiring lobbyists because they're literally the only people who understand what's going on but then they bring their bias with it etc so um i don't i don't think so there's no argument to be had that every president is way too influenced by lobbyists we agree on that right uh yeah would do you have a reason to believe that uh trump is more influenced than say obama who and i'll give you an

[42:00]

than say obama who and i'll give you an obama anecdote so the anecdote here is originally i was pro-obama when he said he was going to go soft on marijuana yeah at the state level but then when he became president he changed his mind and never gave a reason and to this day he's never given a reason why he changed his mind for a while he changed it back after a while but you have to assume that was a lobbyist impact because he would have given a reason if he just had a different thought about it so i think you can see that obama was almost certainly influenced on a major law which caused people to go to jail i mean that's as serious as you can get he was trying to put californians in jail for marijuana offenses and um is there is there something similar with trump that you could look to and say uh that's a decision he would not have made except for the lobbyists well let me give you one more bit of context while you're thinking about that because it

[43:01]

you're thinking about that because it that that's an unfair question because having done a lot of interviews when somebody says give me one example of x it's always a hard question to answer so while you're thinking about it i'll give you the willie brown uh philosophy when he was a he was a big politician in california and somebody asked him he was doing a vote on cigarettes i forget it was smoking in public or whatever it was and and somebody said how can you vote fairly on this when you take a lot of money from the cigarette industry and willie brown gave the best answer i've ever heard he looked at the camera and he said if you can't take money from somebody and then turn around and stab them in the back you're in the wrong business right i've heard that yeah sure enough you took the money and stabbed them in the back now can you think of an example in which trump has vowed to lobby us in a way that's kind of obvious that we would all see

[44:03]

can't think off top my head but um you know and i admit these are very complicated issues so i don't know all the
the the details so wouldn't it be more fair to say instead of saying that you're anti-trump would it be more fair to say you're anti-lobbyist and as far as we know it's been a a 10 out of a 10 problem probably for the length of the republic i mean i i don't know that there's ever not been a 10 out of 10 but i would agree with you that on the badminton scale it's probably a 10 out of 10. so i think we're on the same page how bad it is right right all right okay thank you for that and i will uh but let me just complete that point which is if that was your strongest anti-trump problem it was just sort of background noise because it's the same problem everybody's got it doesn't seem to be special so think now whether you are as confident as about the things lower on the laundry list i'll take another caller and thank you for that thank you bye

[45:05]

thank you bye interesting was it let's take alex who does not look like a democrat but we'll find out in a minute
alex can you hear me alex are you an anti um
i have a friend i just had a conversation with like two days ago about this
i looked at your profile picture and i said doesn't look like a democrat no this is a friend of mine who lives down in vegas and um it's it's crazy he messaged me as i was like a moment ago it's kind of funny as i'm asking about him it's like he feels like i'm talking about him but he literally believes that trump is hitler and what i'm wondering is there a single kill shot that you can throw at someone where he won't listen to reason to anything he just says no this is literally worse than hitler's the argument that we had and i couldn't

[46:06]

the argument that we had and i couldn't even know where to go with that because when you have that belief i mean are you just too far gone where there's no recovery or is there something that you could do to dismantle that a little bit so there's there's no one kill shot but i'll tell you how you can chip away at it over time the first thing is try to ask him to explain to you why israel loves him more than other presidents to the point where they have signs of him it's the most special interaction we've had he moved the embassy to jerusalem etc so ask him to explain why israel the very best detector of nazi behavior doesn't see it remind them that both sides of the media are are brainwashing their people so if you start and say your media is brainwashing you you get immediate resistance if you say you understand the media is is ramping up everybody's emotion not

[47:09]

is is ramping up everybody's emotion not not just yours but everybody's because they can measure what headlines get clicks and now they know what tweaks your emotions and that's what they're going to do to make money so that's why you have it you having an attenuated emotional reaction because the news is manipulating you on both sides it's not just you both sides he seems to have a box that does that he believes that like rachel maddow for example he's under the impression that she's a very honest journalist even though she's not a journalist and like don lemon are people that are speaking the truth and guys like tucker carlson are crazy don't don't get into the conversation of whose news is more accurate you can't win that one because there's you know enough bad news on both sides instead get them to admit that that the news business has learned to ramp up your emotions to overcome your common sense because most people will agree with that because they say oh yeah they can measure what gets the most clicks so yes

[48:10]

gets the most clicks so yes they now know how to ramp up our emotional uh state in a way that they couldn't before so you get them to agree to that get him to agree that israel hasn't noticed it and then i like to do the trick of you say what is the one thing he's done that tells you how bad it is what's your strongest point i did that with the last caller i asked what is your strongest point against this president and when he when we drilled down it was that lobbyists exist they they exist for all presidents so his strongest complaint with the president turned out to be a gen generic complaint about capitalism and you know economics totally different yeah so i like to pick the uh the fine people hoax so if you look on my timeline you'll see uh yeah i've been watching all that loving it so um if you can convince somebody that the

[49:12]

um if you can convince somebody that the foundational thing they believed about their argument and for a lot of people it's that fine people hoax the belief that the president actually called the racist fine people when in fact you said the opposite if you can demonstrate in a way they can see
see to show them the transcript here it is you've been they've been telling you and i can even show you five examples this week where cnn told you that the truth is the opposite of what you can see with your own eyes and if you don't believe this is the truth here's the video of the president saying these exact words now try to square how cnn is saying that he called the racist fine people with the fact that the transcript says i'm i'm not talking about the racists they should be condemned totally now that is so unambiguously um you know proof that fake news is that is the dominant texture of our of our news information that should at least give your friends some pause but i don't think there's

[50:12]

some pause but i don't think there's any chance you can reprogram somebody in a conversation you know somebody who's that far gone but you can definitely put some doubt in their mind and let the doubt see if they see if it can grow on its own that's what i've been working on i've been working on doing that to chip away at a little a little bit because he really has the belief that he's hitler and he says some things that you know i don't even repeat on here what he thinks needs to be done to this president where i'm like dude you can't think like that that's scary but he's like no but he's worse than hitler like he needs to be you know he needs to disappear and i really from you know a safety standpoint i'm like dude you gotta change your thinking like that's crazy that you think that so well yeah you might have a situation where somebody's just not stable so that that could be a different situation anyway i gotta run and do some other stuff and i'm gonna end here and i'll thank you caller and i'll talk to you all later