Episode 427 Scott Adams: Putting the Phoney Debate Over “Socialism” in Context For the First Time
Date: 2019-02-22 | Duration: 17:40
Topics
The debate over socialism between Bernie, AOC and the GOP What’s wrong with socialism…besides lack of incentive? UK and Canada have socialized medical care, why not us?
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> [!note] Rough Transcript
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## Transcript
[0:10]
hey everybody this will be a short and very special whiteboard presentation in which I'm going to put socialism and the debate over socialism in the United States in context probably for the first time you've ever seen it now what inspired me to do this is that I've been watching the so-called debate over socialism let's say as expressed by Bernie Sanders and AOC and others versus the standard Trump Republican conservative view of capitalism and it's making me crazy because I'm watching two people two sides who think they're in a conversation but are not so there's an an illusion of a debate but it's an illusion because we're not even really talking about the same things somebody says hey we took uh economics too all right here's what I'm watching so if you got socialism in this bubble and capitalism uh on the other we know
[1:11]
and capitalism uh on the other we know that capitalism gives us great stuff like you know we associate it anyway with democracy Freedom high standards of living of course you can go too far with your capitalism into into fascism but no nobody wants that literally nobody's in favor of that over here in socialism we worry that um historically it's been associated with dictators and economic collapse in Venezuela and genocide and and uh and Hitler and everything else but in the middle here is where you've got a little bit of capitalism and a little bit of socialism and that's where I would say that the the UK with national health insurance Canada with NA national health insurance and then anything Bernie talks about so if Bernie Sanders is talking about it it's probably some version socialism and here's what I'm noticing if you if you talk to the people who love capitalism and dislike socialism tell me what's wrong with socialism these people will say
[2:12]
socialism these people will say socialism is bad because dictators economic collapse genocide and of course a lot of that has to do with a lack of incentive right the big advantage of capitalism is incentive if you have a capitalist system people are incented to work hard if you take away their incentive things devolve fairly quickly into a bad situation not necessarily a dictator but a bad situation but here's the thing do the UK and Canada still have incentive I think they do I think if you grow up in Canada you know fact check me on this if there are any Canadians out there if you live in Canadia in Canada if you live in Canada do you feel you have an incentive to go to work well of course you do cuz if the only thing you have is free health care or let's let's uh sweeten the pot if all you have is free health care and let's
[3:13]
you have is free health care and let's say uh you've got free college I'm not suggesting these are good ideas right now I'm just talking about the concepts if you had those things would you still have an incentive to go work I think you would as evidenced by the fact that the C has a functional economy as does the UK so when I see the people over here saying no Bernie you can't have what you want because we'll turn into this that's not a sensible argument because we have examples of people who have what birdie wants us to have and they're not falling apart but here's the problem why is it that the UK and Canada can have those things and yet we seem to think we can't afford it here here here's why because we have a huge military if the United States did not have an enormous military could the UK and Canada have what they have probably
[4:15]
what they have probably not because if we didn't have a huge military they would have to have one or they may have already been conquered or in a war with somebody else so because we've put a priority on military spending I suspect that that allows some of the Free Riders to give free healthcare so it's not really eer and apples and oranges conversation the only reason that they can do what Bernie wants is because we spend so much on the military now if they were to do what president Trump suggests let's say the NATO folks if they were to substantially increase their spending so that we could at least uh draw down our spending over time their economies might suffer a little bit ours might be able to give us some of the things that they enjoy now there's of course the issue of whether any of this is better than what we have that's a separate issue but in terms of
[5:15]
that's a separate issue but in terms of why they can have these things and we can't it's probably because of the military and our military is so large that we can protect them and they become a little bit of Free Riders now I tweeted around a quote of mine from earlier which is the belief that uh capitalism can get you what socialism wants faster than socialism can get it so socialism you know the bad kind where you've just get you got rid of your you got rid of your capitalism and you've got a top down centralized system that's not going to get you what you want just wanting it isn't going to get you what you want either you need to create a lot of money and you need a lot of Ingenuity and you probably need something that's closer to I'm going to call it a a Mark Cuban way of approaching it which is to look at it sort of like an engineer and to say how
[6:16]
sort of like an engineer and to say how can you have a capitalist system that can get you as close as possible to inexpensive Universal healthare how can you get as close as possible to having some kind of lowcost or free college for people who on it without without getting into this left area that you don't want to be and of course nobody wants to be over here in fascism so all I wanted to add to this conversation is that when the people who are in favor of capitalism and are opposed to this when I say can you explain why you're opposed to it they can't now they say things and people will say a lot of different arguments but there's always something missing it's as if the people who are dead set on this side and dead set that this is all bad don't really know why now it could be that I'm also leaving stuff out and so I'm going to put it to the public because I have no sense of embarrassment
[7:16]
because I have no sense of embarrassment like normal people I might be totally wrong about some major elements I might be leaving some major thought out of this but you'll tell me I'm sure you'll tell me what I'm leaving out the arguments that don't work are that if you give people universal healthcare and let's say free college you turn into a dictatorship what that doesn't even make sense did Canada turn into a dictatorship you know did the UK turn into a dictatorship because they have universal healthcare what there's no connecting tissue there the the other argument I hear is it's going to be e economic collapse and genocide but we have plenty of examples where that's clearly not happening so I'm not supporting socialism I'm I'm quite solidly a capitalist solidly a capitalist don't want my taxes to go up don't want to be transferring money don't want to be
[8:17]
transferring money don't want to be rewarding people for not working I don't want any of that but I also don't want to hear arguments that don't have any connecting tissue whatsoever so if you can't explain to me why there are countries that are thriving with some of these socialist elements within a capitalist framework if you can't explain it you need to work harder you need to go back and figure out what is my argument uh and let me challenge you right now in the comments in the comments uh tell me what is wrong with socialism slippery slope in my new book coming up I talk about this slippery slope being a more of a mental problem than a real a real problem that is that we imagine that everything that's heading in some direction will keep going that direction forever but in the real world there are always counter forces so anything that goes too far eventually causes a reaction and it and
[9:19]
eventually causes a reaction and it and it
it stabilizes so the slippery slope is not an actual argument it's a fear but it's not a logical argument because just because you don't know what would stop a trend from happening doesn't suggest it will keep happening because there's always a counter force that pops up
um we defend Canada that's true so that was the argument that I just made that because the US has a big military presence countries that are have a little bit of a socialist element to them within the capitalist context uh have an advant and they don't have to have as big a military it's based on force and coercion is it so the people who are forced and coerced uh in Canada and England are they complaining you know we don't have to
[10:20]
complaining you know we don't have to wonder what happens can't we just look at the country is doing it somebody says I'm losing confidence in you all right then I will ban you forever you're blocked um I allow arguments I allow facts and I I allow any kind of disagreement so any kind of disagreement you want to offer I'm open to it if it comes with a reason but but if I hear but for the but when I see here so here's another one that just says you're an idiot if if the best you can do is insult me personally then you're banned forever all right if you have a reason I'm open to it because honestly I think there's there's something missing in my analysis it feels like it but I'm open to finding out what that [Music] is
is um Trump as a
[11:20]
um Trump as a counterforce well there are plenty of counterforces all right so notice in the comments a complete lack of argument against socialis [Music] there's an explanation why we don't have it which has to do with our military protecting everybody else but that's not an argument against socialism that's just saying that there's a reason they can have it and we
[Music] can't uh Scott you need to uh read more history wrong absolutely wrong I do not need to read more history because that comment suggests and again I won't read your mind but it strongly suggests that you're going to say socialism devolves into these things nobody's making that argument if the UK and Canada devolve into genocide and dictatorships I'm going to say to you whoa you're right that universal healthcare turned Canada
[12:20]
that universal healthcare turned Canada into some kind of a genocidal dictator situation but as long as Canada is doing okay that argument doesn't doesn't work
um where does Universal basic income fall on the graph Universal basic income would probably be just to the left of this line and the reason it's not further into the line where you're just paying people for nothing is that the only people who are going to want this Universal basic income should it ever become a law are people who are not the kind you want to hire anyway they're the people who are AR going to help your workplace and you either let them die or you find some way to take care of them and now many of them would have mental problems and physical problems and and real reasons that they can't work so I'm not recommending Ubi I'm not recommending socialism I'm not recommending Universal healthc care or free college I'm just talking about the
[13:21]
free college I'm just talking about the concepts here all right um Canada and UK are going bankrupt now that would be a fact that could be checked I don't know somebody says why aren't the Caravans headed to Venezuela because you're arguing this which is not the conversation so anybody who says socialism is bad because Venezuela Venezuela is over here Bernie is not suggesting let's have a dictatorship it was the dictatorship and nationalizing the the main sources of income that wrecked Venezuela was it not so was corruption dictatorship and and nationalizing businesses there's nobody recommending any of that stuff and if they do that would be those would be bad ideas but if you're arguing Venezuela you're not in the conversation you're not part of the conversation cuz
[14:23]
not part of the conversation cuz literally nobody in the United States is suggesting that we become a dictatorship and nationalized our biggest businesses and uh Institute massive corruption nobody suggests that all right
[Music] um the number one argument about against socialism is freedom terrible argument terrible argument yeah so the people over here who love capitalism will say even if you get into this range you've given up freedom because you're being taxed and you know maybe involuntarily and you're told you can't have the health care you want and you're being forced to do stuff terrible argument because you already live in a country in which you are forced to do all manner of things I mean you have to drive a certain way you got to get a license for this a tax for that you got to get approved for this you got to get a certified for that we're we have very
[15:24]
certified for that we're we have very little real Freedom we have a very a very restricted Freedom already we're just used to it right I pretty much guarantee you that if we had Universal Health Care for a few years people would complain about how they're forced to have this and they'd rather have something else 10 years later it would just be what we do and we wouldn't even notice so the the freedom uh argument is very weak because it it imagines that we're already free and we'll be giving something up and the the truth is we're not even close to free we have some freedoms but we're not even close to free you know we're restricted in just about every field of human human endeavor uh try parking wherever you want see how that works out for you um there are no more health insurance companies now you could argue there are dumb ways to do this and there are smart ways to do it and that's a good
[16:28]
argument they parasite our Tech development that may be
true uh Sweden's another example somebody's saying somebody says I don't think you know what socialism is really I'm going to delete you for saying I don't know what socialism is cuz that is not a comment that's a comment about
me uh [Music] um driving is very different than freedom of Health Choice well duh I guess that's what makes it an analogy well in this case it's an example I wouldn't say it's an analogy it's an example of our many limited freedoms so I wouldn't call it an analogy per se
[17:28]
um yeah nobody's arguing that health here is better in Canada I would certainly not make that argument all right that's all I needed to add for today I wanted to see what your responses were and I will talk to you later