Episode 421 Scott Adams: Scott Induces Cognitive Dissonance in Guest Callers

Date: 2019-02-18 | Duration: 1:21:07

Topics

Q. For Guest Callers: Why are you opposed to emergency funding for border security? Scott discusses a range of topics on the issue with callers

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> [!note] Rough Transcript
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## Transcript

[0:04]

all right trying something new and I can't guarantee that my sound will be good so can anybody confirm that they can hear me let's start with that can anybody hear me good good so far so I'm trying a new microphone headset uh thank you to John for recommending this good idea but we don't know yet if I'll be able to hear some callers so if anybody wants to sign up to be a guest um I will take some calls but in order to um take these calls I'm looking for
for specifically people who want to oppose border security funding using the emergency powers of the president so I'm looking for those specifically I'm not sure if I'll be able to tell just by looking who you are so I I'll tell you what I'm going to do I'm going to

[1:05]

I'm going to um yeah I see a couple of people who have removed removed themselves so those of you who are remaining I will assume are people who oppose border wall um emergency funding and I see some more of you disappearing because you're you're hearing the requirements so it looks like Jason and Robert are still here so let's try adding Jason in a minute and we'll see if I can hear him this is uh partly a test of the technology Jason can I hear you yeah let's see you tell me oh yes big I can hear you can the rest of the audience hear him say something else um I'm drinking a cup of coffee I'm taking a sip right now your listic programming is working on me all right can somebody in the audience confirm that you can hear both of

[2:06]

confirm that you can hear both of us um I'm sure they can hear me but can you hear uh Jason at Jason it's at Jason please correct uh can you hear at Jason I want credit for my extraordinary all right so nobody is saying uh no but it says sounds like I got a hum okay we could hear so Jason uh are you opposed to emergency wall
good Jason is gone okay sounds like we lost him uh let's try someone else steuart I'm going to pick you but I hope you heard the instructions Stuart that I'm only taking callers steuart are you there great um and did you hear the uh the setup that I'm looking for people who oppose emergency border security uh yeah and

[3:09]

emergency border security uh yeah and that would describe you I guess uh yeah that would describe me all right and are you first of all just so I have in context are you do you do you identify with the right the left or independent some somewhere in the middle uh libertarian libertarian and are you opposed to borders in general or just particular idea of the emergency funding uh just the emergency funding okay and can you give me um is there more than one reason first of all or do you have one reason that's really the reason uh I think it's just more of a general reason uh I just think that uh it's an overuse of executive power I don't think the situation at the border constitutes an emergency the way um Congress intended in the National emergencies act no I'm not an expert on the act now let me let me uh let me make sure just for the purpose of of the audience that when you make more than one point I want to make sure that I I

[4:11]

one point I want to make sure that I I cover each each point in order number one um have the other 30 so emergency declarations do they seem to be appropriate to you or are they all kind of sketchy uh I haven't reviewed each of them in general I think yeah we do declare too many things as National emergencies okay where it would be better to have them handled at a state or local level all right so so you're not even specifically against the border security funding so much as the process uh yeah I I think for me it's more uh emergencies in general and um you know the relative size scope and power of the federal government States so would you be in favor let's just say hypothetically let's say the government wanted to you uh declare an emergency because let's say the Congress was going to be too slow at whatever it was whatever was the problem and let's say you knew it would save exactly one life

[5:11]

you knew it would save exactly one life there would be no other costs or benefits um but it would save one life and it would be a little bit of a stretch of the emergency Powers because it's not the way it was intended but would one life be an emergency uh no no not for me what what would be a minimum level of emergency in terms of loss of life to say well that's an emergency let's say and let's say that you know it's going to happen you know you're not guessing you you know that the current situation will kill 10 people a year or a thousand people a year what what is the number that makes it an emergency in your mind I don't think I've ever thought of it in that way uh to come up with a minimum number um yeah I don't think I have a minimum number at all it's an interesting way to think of it well how how else would you think of it because well what I what I think of when I think of emergencies and this may be how I Define this term in my mind is I think of you know something sudden and unexpected happened and uh in the case

[6:11]

unexpected happened and uh in the case of the government responding they have to immediately mobilize resources uh to save people from um you know harm you know so I like a hurricane could scenario but but you're you know that's not how emergency the emergency declarations are not for um speed related emergencies right oh yeah yeah and I think that's probably where my disagreement comes with uh how we declare emergencies and how we get the federal government involved in a lot of issues now what would be wrong in a situation in which we can observe that the Congress can't do its minimum job but yet there's still a situation where people are dying getting raped loss you know loss of property loss of life and it's on a regular basis you don't have it's not a it's not a maybe something will go wrong situation it's more of a guarantee there will be more of the stuff that we have every week people dying people being robbed right now and and accepting that it might be a lower level per capita than

[7:13]

might be a lower level per capita than even the normal rate in the country but there would still be more of it you know in an absolute number um what would be wrong with the president saying um in as long as he did it publicly hey I I ask Congress to do its job and you can plainly see that they did not so now I'm going to try another process and by the way if tomorrow Congress decides to do its job then I can just cancel this emergency because I'm doing it right in front of you I'm not hiding anything there's no ulterior motive it's what I promised in my campaign it's just that our current methods became too politicized so that um so that they couldn't make a they couldn't do their job because they were distracted by me as a personality let's say the president Trump saying that would you agree that the reason Congress couldn't get it done was maybe at least half because of how they feel about the president would you say that politics were was part of why they didn't get a good solution I I I

[8:15]

they didn't get a good solution I I I definitely think politics is a factor however I think you know president Trump is the Persuader in Chief and I think if anyone can bring Congress around to act I would think it has to be him I mean I was a little surprised that there much push back right let me let me stop you there because you made a uh an assumption that needs to be challenged okay um he he is the Persuader and chief but would you agree that we have left a a time in our history where you could convince the other side it doesn't it seem like convincing your own side is really the most you can do these days because that's all we ever see done we don't see anybody um succeed in in in changing minds of the other side can you can you think of one time that's happened in say the last five years well I mean if you give me as far as the last five years again I would point to president Trump convincing uh you know people who are Republicans who were in favor of uh you

[9:16]

Republicans who were in favor of uh you know more immigration free trade Etc uh to see his point of view and to see how that was causing uh unexpected you're but you're you're describing what I just said which is convincing his own side so we do see people consolidating uh consolidating support on their own side just as just as AOC is trying to convince her own side that more of a socialist bent would be a good idea but she has no real hope of really even convincing one person who's a republican I mean there may be literally zero people will be U convinced by that but it might be enough so would you president Trump also convinced a lot of people who had supported uh Obama and who had been Democrats to come over and support him in 2016 so I mean I think it's what I'm saying is I think with President Trump the possibility is there to break through and convince people who are Democrats not necessarily the people in Congress you have a great point about that but you know Rank and file

[10:17]

that but you know Rank and file Democrats Democratic voters uh to see things a different way uh because he's had success doing this in the past all right so but don't you think that he's had three years to try to convince people and some point you just have to say this isn't going to happen and you have to try Plan B well there is part of that I mean you know part of this emergency declaration could be just another phase in his negotiation and his persuasion and to that extent okay you know I'm not going to get super worked up about it um but just for me I feel like no the right way to do things is you know he needs to persuade and convince a majority in Congress that but wait but wait hold on hold on we both agree what the right way would be if it could be done yeah but H has he not demonstrated that that's not a practical plan anymore because he's tried that for three years and I think you'd agree with me that he's persuading backwards for the last three years meaning at one point the Democrats were more in favor of funding it at at one point we were

[11:19]

of funding it at at one point we were closer to a you know mutual agreement uh and at one point nobody was saying let's get rid of all the borders it seems to me that that we are because of the split in the public that that we're getting further from agreement and that Trend seems to to be on a permanent you know path it doesn't look like this President can reverse that but he can certainly do but he can do what he promised and he can do it with full transparency which is you you saw the committee work you saw them ignore the experts right in front of you and I'm going to do this emergency thing in which I'm going to fund it the way the experts in this area say it should be done does that feel dangerous to you uh dangerous I no I mean this doesn't uh rise the level of you know the worst abuses of executive power or whatever hyperbole we're hearing out of the left uh to me I I feel like yes it's a shame that you know we get these

[12:20]

shame that you know we get these presidents in there and quote unquote they can't get anything done because Cong Congress won't do their job but I still look at our system and it's one based on checks and balances and that means that unfortunately some things that should happen and should get done and would save lives don't get done so whenever I am debating a topic with somebody and they use the word should I usually declare Victory and move on okay now and the reason that is is because should is a reasonless word you you should do this but it lacks the reason so what I've said is that yes Congress should do the work the President should obey congress's will we should do it completely differently but we've already proven that doesn't work so the Practical plan is to look for something that gets you to where you need to go compatible with what the experts recommend compatible with what he promised in the election and he's

[13:21]

he promised in the election and he's doing it in public he's doing it right in front of us and immediately after he let Congress fail spectacularly in front of the public um so I I I've been by arguing I'm going to I'm going to give somebody else a chance but thank you so much all right talk you later all right all right let's see if somebody else wants to jump on here I'd love to get
get um let's invite Perry and if it's the same argument I probably won't want to engage in that but we're looking for a new more novel argument Perry are there are you there
Perry Perry Perry does not seem prepared Perry will be deleted and now Mike Woodburry we'll see if we can add Mike

[14:22]

um is Mike coming Mike Hey sir how are you I'm doing well thank you hey where are you on the political Spectrum where do you identify on this issue or just in general uh let's say in general uh very conservative okay uh I was hoping to get some um some I I think conservatives are all going to be have the same objection which is on this issue I'm on this issue I I think I have some framing that's very different from um the typical conservative View and is in favor of not pursuing the wall okay so the idea is that the um the wall is really just represents a level of friction that we as a country assume is is acceptable for immigration that there's no perfect wall there's no perfect solution to stopping immigration and so our process of controlling the amount of flow of you know what is cheap

[15:23]

amount of flow of you know what is cheap labor and um you know additional uh taxpayers if if you look at it that way is to control how much we allow over the Border it's no different than tourism each year we have fatalities from that are related to tourism that provide but we allow it because of the economic incentive wait so get get get to the point and I'm I don't hear the point yet so it's a political process it's not an emergency it's always been a political process how much uh immigration we allow over the Border would um would you have an objection to the president using a technique that has a name you don't like it's called emergency but he's doing it in front of everybody it's a very Public Act and while the name might not be the right name and really none of us probably think that's exactly the right name but does the process of him taking it out of congress's hands after he's allowed them to fail in front of the

[16:24]

allowed them to fail in front of the public and in the context of people dying on a regular basis and and the problems being ongoing um would you not think that the process is okay even maybe if you called it something else maybe you don't call it emergency is is it just the word that that gets to you uh I don't think that we should be using that uh that power to uh affect what is a political decision it's well cost and benefit to everything you you use the word should yeah and as I told the last caller that's usually when declare Victory and walk away because should is a word that we we tend to use when we've run out of reasons so what I said was the the process that we tried clearly did not work which was using Congress to do it the reason it didn't work is almost certainly because of their attitude about politics and about this President it wasn't really that they couldn't have an agreement uh

[17:24]

they couldn't have an agreement uh because in fact they went into the agreement already agreeing that there should be order security and that it needs to be funded there was there was no agreement there was not really any disagreement on the central points until you throw Trump in there and that was the reason that they couldn't do their job so in the
um it's using the power that that that that act permits him to to to take this

[18:27]

that act permits him to to to take this action right so the the alternative is to fail in front of the public and not give the the people who voted for him what they wanted and here's the weird part border security is widely popular in general you know the the question of a wall specifically is not as popular of course but the question of border security is something pretty much the whole country wants and the experts of the experts of border security have said what it should look like and then our government could not deliver that even though they had the money they had the time and they had the interest well the country wants a level of friction at the border they don't want to stop all immigration that's not going to happen and I don't think that's in our interest to do that well I I I agree and everybody involved seemed to be on board with increasing the friction um at the border so both sides are in favor of some kind of security at the border and that it should be better

[19:27]

the border and that it should be better so even the Democrats wanted to increase friction at the border yeah but they wanted to do it humanely and with respect to the to the to our neighbors and it when it when we depart from respect that's when the the issue has to be stopped until we can regain respect now you realize that the respect you're recommending is respect to the cartels right because uh it's well demonstrated I I don't think there's a question of fact on this that the the Border areas around where people are crossing are literally controlled by the cartels and the cartels are are buying not only the Loyalty of the Mexican police and politicians locally but also in many cases and this again is well documented they've been bribing American politicians and American um local city police So when you say it's a question of showing them respect specifically we'd be showing respect to the cartel because the cartel

[20:27]

respect to the cartel because the cartel is the only one who controls that border area it's not it's not the government of Mexico I don't know what the level of control they have if it's 100% or 10% or 20% of the people that are crossing the border if that's it's it's 100% uh with within the certain areas that the cartel does control it's 100% within those areas that's my understanding there may be areas that so few people are trying to cross that neither the government nor the cartels really care but where there are a lot of Crossings the cartel owns that so you're saying we should we should have 100% control in those specific areas uh yeah I'm saying that well specifically I'm saying that showing respect to to Mexico in that context means really just respect to the cartel because they they literally run they run the territory they own it they own the government they own the police on and a little bit on both sides unfortunately well so then I have to fall back on the dtz because he came out three hours ago

[21:28]

dtz because he came out three hours ago and said uh he did not support the president's emergency action so I'll just change my argument to dtz rule well uh that that's a that's a good move but I would imagine without hearing dtz and I don't want to put um you know I don't want to put words in his mouth but I can almost be sure that his love for process and the Constitution he would put above lives and other words I believe that and again this is me talking this is not dtz but he may actually think that protecting the sanctity of the Constitution is worth few hundred lives would you agree I if we all stopped driving we would save far more lives than halting immigration so but that would be yes so so if yeah I I I do believe that now I would agree that if the risk were the entire Constitution were ripped up that

[22:30]

entire Constitution were ripped up that I would also sacrifice a few hundred lives but probably we're talking about a president and I think the president could narrowly describe what makes this special by saying it's you know it's something that the public wants it polls well border security in general we're listening to The Experts and it's a national security issue and under those weird conditions which the Congress tried to do it and failed right in front of us because they didn't even come up with a a plan that was compatible with the experts and that's that's as hard as you can fail um that in that narrow situation he's going to take action and he wishes that Congress would act so that he you can cancel it would you be okay with that um you know potentially I I still think it's you know the rhetorical challenge with how it's the the issues been framed by the president is is probably my leading concern and the you

[23:31]

probably my leading concern and the you know I believe in border security I believe in a lot more than we currently have uh from a dialectic but from a rhetorical standpoint it's it's been aw all right thank you appre appreciate you Mike and I'm gonna go to another caller thank you sir let's go to
you all right Kina is that
you and um do you identify on the political or right left or middle um you know I used to describe myself as Democratic but really in all actuality I don't choose to have any sides anymore the way that our government has been working lately fair enough um and and what would be your argument against emergency funding for the wall so my my reasoning for not having emergency

[24:32]

my my reasoning for not having emergency funding is the fact that we have enough issues going on in our own country that need fixed with funding like our roads for one uh that we should not be using money towards a border wall that's going to be ineffective in the long run we have people coming in illegally from all areas of our borders not just from Mexico and I want to well hold on Hold On Let's uh let's take it a point at a time yes what would what would be your your top strongest Point against emergency funding the the one one point that rises above the others my my biggest issue is where are all these numbers coming from of all of these people being killed all of a sudden we have people being murdered every day in their own homes by their own spouses wait hold on hold on is is your bigger your biggest issue about emergency funding is the you don't know the source of Statistics well that's part of it is where are the statistics coming from for

[25:34]

where are the statistics coming from for all of this all of a sudden and two wait wait hold on do you do you think that these statistics did not exist before because the president's been talking about this for three years no yeah they've they've been talking about it for three years since Trump has been president but where did these statistics come into before there there have been murders and and people wait hold on hold on let let let me uh I need to interrupt you just so we stay on one point and we don't drift into a second point for what but are are you questioning whether anybody whether there's more crime coming across the border let's let's talk about crime in general that's my big thing is we have crime every day from not just illegals from Mexico but illegals from other countries as well um well how do how does that have anything their number one reasoning it seems for wanting to have a border wall is because these people are so dangerous that are coming in well now let me ask

[26:35]

that are coming in well now let me ask you that do you live in a uh a dangerous do you live in a dangerous neighborhood or a not dangerous neighborhood I live in Witchita Kansas so it's a safe place right it's a pretty safe place for the most part yeah do do people in your town lock their doors we do and we lock our car doors unless why why why do you lock doors if you're in a low crime neighborhood oh well see my my neighborhood isn't really all that low crime but I grew up in a small town about 30 minutes from here where people don't lock their doors and don't well but hold on let but you said the people in Witchita in general they lock their doors so we won't we won't talk about your house specifically but in general people in witchat it's a very low crime area compared to the rest of the country but they still lock their doors are they irrational because there's crime going on all over the country why would they why would they lock their doors in a low crime neighborhood when there's crime everywhere else in the country there's a difference between locking your door and

[27:35]

difference between locking your door and being a total racist against people coming to your door just
your oh hold on hold on uh what does what does the door wouldn't wouldn't the door of your house be keeping out brown people and other people well yeah but what I'm saying is if you look at it in the in the aspect of a door and locking your doors and keeping your home safe right what good does a wall do if you're blocking people out completely you got to have that door open to people that's what the border is the border the border is mostly open we already have security we already have fences and stuff why do we need something bigger that really in all actuality isn't going to do any good people can fly over people can hold on hold on you you you're you're you're uh you're going from one point to another well what I'm saying is there's all other ways that

[28:36]

saying is there's all other ways that people can get in why are we just trying to block off one border right so could we could we agree that your first reason which is that people have lower that there's crime everywhere and they're not wouldn't would you say it would be fair to say uh you're still there right yeah okay would you say it's fair to say that since the people coming across the border do not bring more crime that we should be less that shouldn't be an issue I mean we can't we can't theorize and assume that everybody coming over is a
a criminal children wait wait who do who do you think assumes that uh pretty much everybody that I've listened toing you like these people are criminals coming over bringing over crime and they're going to kill us and all this other stuff you can't assume that because no nobody assumes that nobody assumes that so here's here's what people assume here's what people assume it goes like this let's say you had 100 immigrants can you see that yeah

[29:39]

had 100 immigrants can you see that yeah yeah say 100 immigrants who are let's say they're illegal and we don't know how many of them turn out to commit crime but let's say it's five five criminals here's what Republicans say they say that's five more crimes than we need if we if we could if we could control the border that would be five people who were not victims of crime but you're saying that this doesn't matter so much as long as five is a low number compared to 100 right I mean quite frankly you you can assume that about every person coming into our country legal or illegally you can put those same numbers down for a flight of people coming in here from another country yeah we and and people do so border is what I'm saying you can't just assume it's all coming from the south because what about no but wait wait wait you're wait wait wait wait wait hold on hold on hold on you you keep throwing

[30:40]

hold on hold on you you keep throwing out hold hold on all right I'm gonna turn all right you're you're just going crazy now um you you've thrown out a bunch of untrue assumptions but that's too is unfair assumption no you're
so that's total cognitive dis we'll get rid of her so we're getting rid of Kina because she flipped out went into total cognitive dissonance there um let's try someone else all right now the the reason that I I cut her off is that she was throwing out assumptions about what I'm thinking and then she kept going you can't tell me what I'm thinking that that's not part of this process you can ask me what I think and I'll tell you but you can't imagine something crazy for that I'm thinking she was literally imagining that I thought everybody coming across the border was a criminal now that's cognitive

[31:43]

criminal now that's cognitive dissonance all right so would you agree that that I threw her into cognitive dissonance could could you detect that I'm not sure if you could all right let's try Tess test you are
next Tess are you there hi hi now Tess do you identify left right or Center or none of the above Center Center all right and do you disagree with the emergency funding for the Border I'm not sure I really understand what he's calling as the emergency because I'm not really sure what's changed so does something have to change in order to be an emergency in other words if he believes that um let's let's say 10 people a month are being killed I don't know if that's the number you know but there's some number of crimes being committed uh let's say he thought that was too much and every every month we

[32:45]

was too much and every every month we wait is 10 more people who got killed would it be fair at some point to say all right let's nothing else is stopping this let's call it an emergency um I I've been listening to your periscopes for a while and I kind of started to be persuaded by and I might be conflating things here so feel free to jump in okay is that you know if the experts or the evidence is consistent with whatever conclusions he's drawing like if he's saying we're losing 10 more per month and that's 10 more too many well what is it compared to you know previous statistics so I'm really not sure wait do wait um but would it matter let would it matter if it used to be 12 and now it's 10 or would it matter if uh for every thousand people that come over and there's no problem that only 10 of them die or or 10 people get killed because of them what what does it really matter that context because I don't see

[33:45]

matter that context because I don't see how it matters I would agree with you because I'm not really sure that it does matter right now it's just more what are the projections for the numbers going up so are we trying to get ready for something that could be in increasing six months down the road and we've got more people coming in and you know more issues because I think what people are seeing is the people coming in so maybe we do need the emergency for the quote rainy day well suppose suppose uh suppose we just took that word emergency off it and I and I said to you Congress tried to get it done they couldn't get it done for only political reasons and I think everybody watching would agree oh yeah that's just because they don't like the president pretty much both sides would agree that that's what's going on here right because because there's a long history of both sides agreeing on the fact that border security should be improved so given that our normal system broke and it's a special case because this personality of this president has has you know polarized things um if I didn't

[34:46]

you know polarized things um if I didn't call it an emergency and I just said it's an executive let's say it was an executive order it's just an executive order to temporarily rearrange some budgets and if the Cong came back and said okay we'd rather take this over it should be a congress Congressional thing and let's say they want to take it over at some point and the President says wait that's way better the last thing I want to do is an executive order so absolutely if you can do your job yeah I'm all on board would you be okay as long as we didn't call it an emergency uh sure why not I I would say get we can get the job done sure why not all right I think what it is is that these people that are coming in is the perception that um their Cousin Eddie from the Christmas vacation movie remember Cousin Eddie who cruised into town on fumes right and he couldn't afford Christmas gifts and he had to stay with with Clark and the family all right finish up the story we'll we'll go to another call okay but basically I think that's what people get concerned

[35:47]

think that's what people get concerned about is that it's Cousin Eddie and you know are who who's gonna pay for them ah yes the who's GNA pay for them yes thanks for taking my call all right thank you so much all right Tess is gone and we're going to bring in looks like preacher's daughter so we'll be talking to Preacher's Daughter are you there Preacher's Daughter hello hello how are you I'm good how are you doing pretty good um where where would you uh it seems like everybody has a dog or a child in the background today I know right and he wasn't barking until of course you get on the phone uh so where do you uh Place yourself on the political uh Spectrum left right or middle your favorite place an independent all right so what is what is your wait wait wait no an independent since I was 18 though since I registered

[36:50]

since I was 18 though since I registered to vote and specifically for the reason of
of being independent independent all right so
so what is your objection to the emergency order is it different than any objections you've heard you may have heard some of them already yes I have
um the only objection I have to the emergency order
is that God and I guess it's not even really an objection it's just a so yeah I've already I've already I've already convinced you I mean yeah so no objection you know just justen I mean I I was never really opposed to it I guess I was kind of in the middle of it all right you know you know what I'm saying well I I'm I'm gonna have to move on then because I need I need somebody to object with me hard so I can make my case yeah okay I yeah I will I'll I'll move thank you all right thank you bye

[37:51]

move thank you all right thank you bye bye all right let's take uh somebody named Dale on here and I can't tell if that's a joke or not but I'm gonna go for uh Jay letter J hey are you there Jay hello where where do you put yourself on the political Spectrum uh yes so I'm independent I'm not really independent all right so what would be your objection to emergency funding for the Border uh yeah so my basic objection is that it's just more laziness like he didn't really do what I thought he should would I thought he he had a chance to he had a chance to veto funding for all kinds of stuff he had a chance to use his buy pulpit and he didn't so what it really looks like so well hold on hold on are are you suggesting that time travel would fix this he could go back and fix

[38:52]

would fix this he could go back and fix the mistake he made before because we're we're past that we're now I mean that happened and and you could blame him for that well but now we're here you're right we're we're here now so so dealing with today is the emergency funding a mistake well that that's why I think it's a mistake I think it's a mistake because it uh plays into this entire view of him as just being lazy and unfocused and a guy who can't really get the job done even though he says he can and so that's why I think it's a mistake who who who what you have not seen him put maximum energy into the immigration question it feels to me like that's where he's put more energy than anything he's ever done even though he's been unsuccessful so far to me the energy he's put in has been deliberately well it seemingly deliberately at the wrong time instead of putting energy in ye years ago when he had an entire majority instead of putting energy in when they are passing

[39:52]

putting energy in when they are passing massive bills he puts the energy in right after he passes the bill then he gets all about it it's just like it it it just seems fake seems like he doesn't really care so but you're you you don't seem to want to talk about the point so I'm I'm gonna ding thank you for taking my call all right thank you so you saw that that that caller didn't even want to talk about the current day it was it was a problem about something that he had done before all right Jill coming on Jill Jill Jill are you there Jill Jill Jill Jill is not talking to us Jill went away let's try Sean Ellis some tells me this one's going to be
fun Sean are you there Sean how are you I'm good Scott how are you I'm tremendous where where do you identify on the political

[40:54]

do you identify on the political Spectrum independent repu independent conservative all right and what is your objection objection to emergency funding of border security I don't have as much as an objection as I did wanted to add a few facts to some questions I heard you asked earlier about how many people were killed and so forth all right do it do it quick do it quickly and then we we'll get to some questions there's 2,000 Americans murdered every year by illegals and the last four months the numbers have gone up threefold there's been over 2,000 or 200,000 illegals in the last four months alone that doesn't sound right Sean I promise you're saying 2,000 a year murdered by illegal aliens under homicide on the homeland security and FBI
FBI data wow okay um I I will not doubt that

[41:54]

data wow okay um I I will not doubt that because I don't have other information but whether was 2,000 or 100 or something say it's half that let's say it's half that say it's a thousand that's a few people a day all right um I'm going to go to some questions Sean but thank you for that addition uh I'll be watching the comments to see if anybody has any counter counterfactuals to that thanks seate your time right bye let's go to Dale all right uh we're trying reach dale dale are you there you're you're there dale how are
you um and Dale do you identify left Center or right
politically SC yeah why do you oppose uh the emergency wall funding oh it's not that it's like you're saying that it's declared an emergency it's just by executive order

[42:55]

emergency it's just by executive order to spend something or around the Congress is what rubs me the wrong way what about the what about the specific case where the public wants border security of some sort the experts have weighed in and then we watched the Congress fail to do its job specifically because they have a problem with the president so in other words the system is still fine but in this special case the system can't work because of politics so would you have a problem with the president saying let's not call it an emergency you know you could call it whatever you want but the process didn't work I'm the reason you know I realized that I'm a controversial you know divisive figure and I'm just going to solve the problem because solving the problem is more important than um you know letting this go on uh would you have a problem with him just solving the problem as long as he was totally transparent about the fact that he understood that you know the the politics of him personally is the only

[43:56]

politics of him personally is the only thing that was holding things up because otherwise the Congress would have given them the money yeah but you're making the assumption that Congress isn't doing their job by doing nothing that's the system set up for that very very very thing well I'm I'm making the assumption that they're doing a political job exactly the way they wanted to but they pointedly ignored the the expert recommendations you would agree that they ignored the experts would you not I would agree they ignore the the experts and I'd also agree that they're right on the boundary of whether the public wants to build the wall or not um but I think they should pay for at The Ballot Box not go around them well you know the president did get elected so you know there's there's a little bit of Ballot Box support for this idea but um so your only your only problem is procedural oh absolutely I mean I'm the wall 100% I'm for much much stricter imp

[44:57]

wall 100% I'm for much much stricter imp of getting rid people and uh so you would prefer a situation uh given that we know the Congress can't get this particular thing done you would prefer a situation where let's say 2,000 Americans die per year and may let's say we let's say we could have reduceed that by you know 200 so let's say 200 people die per year so that you could have your preferred process which is the Congress decided not to fund this as much as the president wanted you'd be okay with that trade-off yeah I would um but in reality the tradeoff would be more there's a possibility of 200 people dying then you can
can actually before but statistically speaking um more border security should should change the uh the crime outcome um all right I got your point um the the thing I wanted you to say is that yes I would let X number of people die to preserve the uh let's say the

[45:59]

die to preserve the uh let's say the Integrity of the system even on the margins like even though this might be a you know a small deviation from the system that even that would be potentially a big risk would that be your argument that it could more a slope than potentially a big risk it's just another bite of the Apple from where we've been all right well thank you for your time I'm going to move on the you know I uh I'm going to say thank you Dale um those of you who watch me know that I argue that the slippery slope is not a real thing because everything goes until there's a reason for it to stop so everything's a slippery slope literally everything you the fact that I ate dinner today um you why doesn't that make me a cannibal tomorrow if I'm eating things today it's a slippery slope the next thing you know I'm eating people well the reason is I've got a reason I don't want to eat people right not interested everything's a slippery slope until there's a reason

[47:00]

a slippery slope until there's a reason it's not everything so to say that one thing is a slippery slope doesn't mean as much as you think because um while there might in fact be some extra emergency orders if they were like this one I'd be okay with that if it if the emergency order was around the fact that experts were being ignored on such a simple matter I would agree now the problem is let's say somebody takes this to um to climate change and they say aha we're going to say that climate is an emergency I would listen to that argument that's not crazy if the Congress can't act and the data suggests that it's an emergency okay but I also wouldn't be in favor of that until the Skeptics and the uh climate scientists uh you know argue it down in public in a way that the public could see the the outcome so short of that

[48:02]

see the the outcome so short of that it's not an emergency but uh and I've suggested and this is uh Mark Mark Snider's idea that what an emergency would look like if the emergency were climate is nuclear power uh many people don't know that the newer generation the generation for of nuclear power they do not have the Meltdown risks of regular old oldtime reactors so if you if you made a climate emergency and I'm going to say this again might not be a bad idea might not be a bad idea but the only way that would work like the only practical way to deal with it as an emergency would be to go um you know gung-ho with nuclear because everything else everything else wouldn't get you there fast enough all right let's do another caller all the rest of the callers do not have profile pictures which makes me think could be Trolls but we'll find out

[49:04]

think could be Trolls but we'll find out let's talk to Luke Luke tell me when you're there I
hear Spectrum uh I'm an independent although I voted for Obama twice and voted for Trump last time oh okay all right you're all over the place I was hoping to get some DieHard Democrat I only got one and she she flipped into uh cognitive dissonance on the first sentence so so that was no fun pretty liberal until recently all right good um can you tell me why you object to emergency funding for the wall I don't think that this is the fastest way to get it done I'm worried about all the inevitable legal challenges that are going to be put up to it I'm afraid that it's going to be past the next election before anything can actually get done because of this method he's chosen well you do know that um his emergency declaration uh the emergency part only affects a small amount of his potential

[50:05]

affects a small amount of his potential budget but he's he's going to be building using the defense department budget and there's some other budget that he doesn't need to declare an emergency to have access to so under all scenarios the wall is going to start and it's going to start quickly but the emergency part will definitely go through the courts and the Supreme Court but that's that's maybe I don't know 25% of the funding and you could wait for that to the end anyway so it probably won't make any difference Luke in the timing the way it's the way it's laid out now there's nothing that would stop him from getting going quickly with the funds that are available without challenge you don't think that uh the people with property rights uh issues environmental groups or Property Owners along the borders that want to sue you don't think they'll be able to to stop progress and and and therefore cause more people to die every you know so often well I think yeah I think the property owners will put up um you know they'll they will resist but as I understand it there are plenty of places

[51:06]

understand it there are plenty of places that need to be shored up even without having to go to those Property Owners so I don't know the the law in terms of eminent domain but the federal government um can just take that land and put a fence up uh so that'll have to all be worked through but I'm imagining that the this is just a guess but I'm imagining that the land owners who don't want a wall also don't have a huge problem with illegals coming across their land now I would love to test that assumption because that's that's not a confident assumption but I think that's probably right right if you had if you had a 100 acres of land and immigrants were coming across it and dying and being killed and and the cartel was leading them across your land you'd probably be the first one wanted a wall so I have to imagine that the the places where people own that land and they they object it's probably related to the fact

[52:07]

object it's probably related to the fact that there isn't much of a problem of people crossing so they'd rather just have their full land the way they had it would you say that's a fair assumption I I I think it probably depends on what business they're in some of those people uh want as much cheap labor coming across as they can get well um yes but they don't those people don't have to come across their specific acreage they you know they they would have as much as they wanted if we get to a point where it's legal I mean so even the president is not opposed to bringing in all the workers that we can get as long as we want them all right uh somebody said they're obsessed looking at my right ear you're right my right ears all curled down from this stupid thing okay um thank you for that and uh I'm gonna move on thanks Scott all right take care all right how about is there anybody who's who's going

[53:08]

about is there anybody who's who's going to be an identified Democrat let's try Blake Blake does not look like necessarily a Democrat but we'll find out let's I can hear you Blake how are you fine how are you doing all right uh where do you identify on the political scale I would say I'm a progressive Democrat Progressive finally thank goodness well welcome I've been waiting for you um what would be your argument against emergency funding for the wall um my argument is that the Pres that Trump did not exhaust his best arguments in uh trying to convince Congress to F what was his best argument that you think would have worked I think that focusing on the idea that people coming into this country should come through checkpoints that that we shouldn't have

[54:09]

checkpoints that that we shouldn't have people just coming in hter Skelter that all come to a place where they're but Blake that but that's exactly what he's talking about everything if he focused on that argument and framed it in those terms rather than arguing wall this all that he could have talked about how many people come across the border other than checkpoints on a daily basis I mean I was listening to something where it sounded like a in one relatively small place over a thousand people were coming in trying to get across the border every day overwhelming the border patrol people the people the our border agents could not deal with so many people just trying to come in all at the same time and if we had some barrier we could Channel people to the checkpoints are are you are you if you're watching the comments go by um they're pretty unified and they're saying uh that's all the president has said what you're saying he

[55:10]

president has said what you're saying he should have done is exactly what he's been doing for three years which is saying you know we we want to have them uh we want to close off the illegal places to concentrate people in the legal places and then as we beef up the legal places with better scanners and more dogs and stuff we we will have created a sort of a choke point where it's easier to catch the bad guys and and you don't have as many people risking their life in the places that they couldn't get over anyway at that point so um your argument is exactly what he did right but he didn't uh put particular people on the spot and ask them do you agree that we should control where people come through the border and if they agreed with that then you have to say well like give me the power to make that happen well but everybody's on the same page you both sides of the debate think that people should only come in through the the legal places

[56:11]

come in through the the legal places that every everybody's on the same page there I I would hope so but it doesn't seem like it to me because why don't they give him the power to do what he needs to do because of politics they don't want him to get reelected all right yeah okay thank you all right Blake uh we'll take another caller let's go uh hisen burn this looks like I think I found this I don't know but I think I found this a good left leaning caller hello are you there oh good what's your name Jay Jay um are you where would you identify on the uh political Spectrum left middle or right uh yeah left Progressive left also left are you Bernie supporter yes I I've often uh labeled myself left to Bernie so you're a little more

[57:11]

Bernie so you're a little more conservative than I am all right no I would be there with you okay um can you give me your argument for why you would oppose emergency funding of the Border yeah first of all it's it's the precent right so um and he's already being sued in uh many different aspects of that right but the other thing is the only way in which he could have had he could have done anything and would have been successful is if he included it in a much bigger plan including DACA including you know legal immigration changes so that's the only way in which it would worked and he didn't do it so but that's but but that's also the past right because the the working group the the the Democrats and the Republicans who got together they had the option of expanding it as much as they want in fact Congress has had you know what two years of having the option of throwing anything in a proposal they can get sure but created this artificial he's created

[58:13]

but created this artificial he's created this artificial timeline now well all timelines are artificial um the the the issue is that there's an ongoing problem and that the longer it goes the worst would would you agree that if if there's some amount of crime coming across the border would you agree that stopping is sooner is better than
later uh well it depends on how much you're actually stopping right for what you're putting in and could those resources be allocated elsewhere which would stop more crime see that's calculus that changed you've changed your reason you changed your reason to now the new reason is that that money could be used uh elsewhere to better effect I I'm only reacting to the question that that you just asked me right so you posed it differently this time so it doesn't NE

[59:15]

differently this time so it doesn't NE okay so either either case is a reason why it why it didn't work for him and it's not going to work for him well if you agree that it didn't work to to to negotiate and that he might not even be the right person to to negotiate in part because he's polarizing and maybe because he doesn't want to who knows no it's because he's thinking too small right if he really wants to solve the problem there are much bigger issues that that really need to be dealt with that could solve the problem so but do you think that he has a Congress that could be part partners with him in this yes all right so uh C certainly on his side so so so this is where uh uh I I like it when when disagreements get to a specific assumption where we disagree with because then you don't really you don't really need to discuss anymore

[1:00:15]

don't really need to discuss anymore there's a a rock based assumption uh my assumption is that he has thoroughly tested the Assumption uh or he's thoroughly tested the process of using Congress to get it done and that especially this latest small working group showed in front of the world that they were not willing to even follow the recommendations of their own experts okay can I just insert something quick there yes please okay he gave him two weeks three week yeah three weeks okay three weeks um that's crazy to expect anymore well but this was after you know two years of congress not getting it done right okay so totally controlled by GOP well no because the GOP would have needed a super majority which they didn't have so they they for the funding questions they need to be able to wh and they should have negotiated enough a little bit to

[1:01:17]

have negotiated enough a little bit to to get something in return and they couldn't do that should the magic word if you were watching earlier I've been telling people that as soon as one of the callers uses the word should and get shut off I I no I I declare Victory uh because um there's lots of things that should happen but they're not relevant because you know people should be nice to each other people should not care about politics people should put the money where it where it makes the most difference um but well it's it's a way to back to a point and just say well if it had gone this way then maybe I would have agreed with it all right so let me so let me put in concrete terms without a
a should we are here today and we can't travel back in time so starting today would it be your preference that instead of pursuing the emergency funding that the president say um however long it takes Congress this is up to you to do and let's say that the cost of waiting

[1:02:17]

and let's say that the cost of waiting is 10 American lives per month let's just as an example if that were the case and I'm not saying that that's the right number but there there's some amount of crime that's ongoing and some amount of it we think we could reduce with better Security based on the border experts saying that's the case so if for example the number was 10 dead Americans per month would you say let's give it another 12 months 10 dead Americans per month so 120 people on average you don't know who it would be let's say 120 people were going to die because we didn't do the e Mercy funding would you would you consider it an emergency to save 120 lives Scott I I'm not going to fall for the you know the false premise and the false uh wait but but which part is the false the 10 people per month what part is false well that or the
the effectiveness of of the plan in which

[1:03:19]

effectiveness of of the plan in which well then okay then but you've changed your reason so if the reason is that the money wouldn't make make a difference we could talk about that but but you do you do realize that the the experts on border security say it would make a big difference would you agree that they say that even if you don't yeah yeah no no no the Ballard fencing um yeah that's um as far as infrastructure that's what they ask for the most but they also ask for technology agents vehicles and and they and the and the working group did not give them all those things they gave them much smaller amount than the experts asked all right so actually actually according to Trump they gave him a lot more that he doesn't know how to spend it uh I don't know what that quote is about but he's in the process of asking for more money so I don't know how to explain that he got he got a lot more money for other things like technology he doesn't know how to spend it he said

[1:04:20]

he doesn't know how to spend it he said so but that would argue against your point because you're saying that they should should give more money to those things which he already has enough money for no see I'm not arguing the money aspect of it I'm arguing whether or not um it's it should be declared an emergency now suppose suppose we didn't call it an emergency let's say it was just an executive order and let's say that he said look I agree Congress should be doing this but right in front of you they failed and they've been failing for a year and and I don't leave nor does anybody else in the country who's watching that they can that in any kind kind of quick fashion that that will change so under those conditions if you didn't call it an emergency let's say you call it an executive action and let's say all he did was do what the experts on security said you should do to reduce the amount of crime coming into the country that's all you did you

[1:05:21]

into the country that's all you did you just did what the experts said um would you be okay with that as long that we're not an emergency Scott I just don't understand why they're not spending the resources that they have to build right why are we not talking about my question I liked my question not not not the one you're asking we we can talk about your question but maybe you can answer my question do I care if you call yeah I do think the presedent I do think calling it National Emergency is a huge precedent constitutional issue that's just not going to pass right great I hope I hope it gets challenged in court and I hope it goes to the Supreme Court so if it let's say it gets let's say gets challenged and doesn't go through yeah um he still has uh these other budgets the defense budget and there's some other budget so he can get several

[1:06:22]

some other budget so he can get several billion from that would you be okay if he used that money right away without without going through Congress right but Scott you're presuming that all of these suits from 12 States from land owners from who else they were I know but just make your point make your point well the point is you're also presuming that all of those are going to get um
approved um you you've mixed several Concepts the the issues with land owners are are one off you know each of them have to be negotiated with but my understanding is there are so many places on the border that need to be shored up that you could sort of ignore the land owners for now and and and maybe get to them later but um and he'd be using his other budgets anyway so even if there are lawsuits going on for the Emergency part you still have plenty of money to do the other stuff all right

[1:07:23]

of money to do the other stuff all right I'm going to um thank you so much for all right take care bye let's do one more I'm going to do Robert Robert has been waiting here Robert you will be live in a
a moment hello Robert where where do you uh put yourself on the political scale um conservative libertarian however this isn't about me it's about my son he had a uh issue to bring up about the emergency declaration all right is your son uh not able to ask himself no he's not because he's at work okay and what and what is your son's point he's a green pill Democrat liberal Democrat progress and he said

[1:08:26]

and he said that if I'm okay with President Trump's signing emergency declaration for the Border then it's a bad precedent because what about he always uses that term a liberal Democrat president signing an emergency order for let's say gun control or Medicare for all and totally bypasses Congress what do I think about that do do do you think that if such a president were set do you think that that could cause a situation where there might be I let's say could that lead to a
situ country at the same time do you think it could lead to something like that I believe it's possible it's possible but would you would you believe that's our

[1:09:26]

would you would you believe that's our current situation I am you know that's wait you you know that's the current situation right the current situation is there are more than 30 emergencies in effect right now so if your if your son is saying what about President we already know the precedent is is is right now we don't have to ask what will happen in the future if somebody does an emergency declaration that's sort of sketchy we don't have to ask that because that already happened and what happened is now we have 30 of them in place which of the 30 that are already in place are bothering your son oh let me answer the question none because he doesn't even know what they are so we don't we don't have to worry about a situation that we're currently in and we can observe hey my coffee tastes the same hey it didn't affect my taxes so thank you for taking my call because now

[1:10:29]

thank you for taking my call because now I have the ammunition to give it back to him you're welcome thanks for calling all
all right let's do
do Mark Mark with the c coming at you mark are you there Mark Mark hey hi hey Mark where are you on the political Spectrum I would um I would say that I'm a social liberal but a yes a fiscal conservative kind of Le more like libertarian like get the hell out of our houses and our personal lives okay that's not too far from where I am um and what is your objection to emergency funding of the border security well that's a little bit of a rephrasing of the initial question as I understood it but my and and I'm a and I'm I'm you know I'm a a big fan R dra all your books and everything but I don't think it went far enough uh you use the analogy of locking

[1:11:31]

enough uh you use the analogy of locking your door to your house right well a lot of houses have two or three doors and I and I think if you're gonna I think if you're going to go all in from a persuasion standpoint you can't just focus and I and I think you I know you don't want to go backwards in time but I don't think Trump framed the question accurately because we have have so many Visa overstays there's there's so many other aspects to this than just the southern border so well hold on hold on I I've been hoping for somebody to say what you just said because I have a response to it if you have a bucket with three holes in it would you say let's not um plug them in order because when you plug the first one there will still be two there well or or would you say well we have to do them in some order so let's do the ones we can do until we're done plugging the holes why why would it matter that there's an additional hole

[1:12:33]

matter that there's an additional hole when we know we have to go plug that as well nobody's nobody's suggesting that we plug one hole and let everything else stay the way it is that's that's you're exactly right and and and and it's entirely logical it's just that once you go emergency order even though uh you know everybody's talking about precedent there is no precedent here I mean you know he's doing much more with much less than other presidents have so let's just you know that to me that's just not part of the argument but emergency order is his last shot and and and if you're gonna go that last shot and if you're not gonna frame that question better for the other two holes oh but don't you but don't you think that there's a timing issue in the sense that if if we handed the president $25 billion tomorrow he could only spend five bill billion a year even if he worked as hard as he could don't you think it's something like that you know I do because the the 25 billion was supposed to be a multi-year number it

[1:13:34]

supposed to be a multi-year number it was like a 10year number or something so if he which would have been you know 2.5 billion a year so if he can get five billion up front that's faster than the biggest ask he's ever made per year and I get that I get that I just think that uh initially and again we're going back in time uh his 5.7 and ask according to the art of the deal wasn't enough I think he should have blown it completely out of the water well he did he he asked for 25 billion initially I mean but I'm talking about completely blowing it out of the water as as far as asking for you know addressing visa overstays and the hb1 Visas and everything else and then the wall wouldn't have seen that big of a of of of something to give up for the DM now I don't have is that anybody heard of any solution for the VISA overstays it could be that we just don't have a good solution for that but here here's my opinion on that do you think that the

[1:14:35]

opinion on that do you think that the same level of crime is is approaching the United States by airplane as it is by foot do you think that the crime rate of people who can afford a ticket and have ID and have some reason to come to the country and they filled in all the paperwork and and they could navigate this complicated system and they come in on a plane do you think those people coming on a plane who presumably are going to be higher income more educated right that's how you get on a plane in the first place do you think that that's the same level of problem even if the numbers are high well okay well that last caveat even if the numbers are high kind of throws a little bit because I think the number of H1 Visa overstays are greater I think as the individual risk per person to your point is lower right but but I'm a physical conservative it's not really for me my issue isn't about crime it's about paying for everybody H okay so the the issue is

[1:15:39]

everybody H okay so the the issue is that all right so you're you're you're sort of on the other side of the issue you you just want more wall uh one way or the other we gotta lock we have to lock all three doors or what's the point yeah okay uh that that is a very supportable opinion and I I take that and I will uh I will thank you for that thank you sir all right take care all right we got one more caller and then I've exhausted you all worry you out because the the arguments start to repeat a little bit all right somebody here is saying Visa overstays about 40% of illegals um I would guess that Visa overstays have a super low crime rate now you could argue that's more crime than we need but if you're arguing what do you work on first it's probably not the people who can afford a plane ticket that that feels like the the lowest level of crime because those

[1:16:41]

lowest level of crime because those people want to stay here and the last thing they need to do is get accused of a crime I would think that they might be the lowest crime population in the country you know my guess um the Visa overstay is a crime yeah yeah I'm so sick of the people who say but don't you know that coming into the country is a crime in itself we all know that are you there
um all right does that hurt your ear uh it's not terribly comfortable but I wanted to test it all right so uh were there any arguments you saw here in which um I did not Prevail did anybody see me I know I I don't think lose the argument is the right way to say it but uh did anybody have an argument that

[1:17:42]

uh did anybody have an argument that they thought bested me well good I guess I did pretty well sound quality is good people say yeah so that's a little tip tip for you that uh I haven't talked about until now when you see the um here are some of the Tells for cognitive dissonance that you saw so those of you who watched the whole thing the people who wanted to talk about the past they are not they're not dealing in any kind of reality that matters so if they're saying I'm mad about the present because of something that happened in the past they're just not part of the rational conversation you can't time travel can't go back and change that we're here today so let's look at here today as the other thing is when people say should he should do this should tries to make you think there's a reason without the reason included it would make more sense

[1:18:45]

reason included it would make more sense to say this is more expensive or this is not our highest priority this plan is Impractical and here are the reasons there are a million things you can say about something you don't like but as soon as you hear that word should that's the flag goes up and and I realize I'm not talking with somebody who's dealing with reason and facts they they're they they've decided and then they're working backwards from their decision and that's when you see that word
should um somebody says I will stop using that word right now well you should just kidding um
should have would have could have now I'm not saying that there's no place for that word in common conversation but in the terms of debate it's somebody trying to get away without a reason they're they're trying to slip one past the goalie I don't have a reason so I'm just going to say he should do this it's not

[1:19:47]

going to say he should do this it's not practical but I'll just say you should we can't afford it but I'll just say you should we can't go back in time but I'll just say you should should go back in time we can't solve all crime by paying no money but we should so whenever you see should you won you won the conversation uh Scott if you thought about growing more hair I should I think I
I should uh are you liked my respect for the
cartels that was kind of fun now you saw saw uh K Kina or whoever it was um who completely flipped out when she realized that her opinions were completely unmowed from anything reasonable um and you saw that she literally she realized that she couldn't listen to me because it was just showing how wrong she was the the further I went

[1:20:48]

how wrong she was the the further I went uh that was kind of
hilarious and Mexico should pay for it all right I think we've said enough for now and I'll talk to you later you might want to leave in the comments whether you'd like to see me do this sort of exercise again on a different topic perhaps