Episode 339 Scott Adams Fixing Immigration, CO2, Beto, Loserthink and Hyperbole
Date: 2018-12-16 | Duration: 33:55
Topics
Jordan Peterson interviews Bjorn Lomborg about climate change We all think…that we know how to think. A lot of us are wrong. Bricks (or jet fuel) constructed from CO2 Review of dumbest comments I received on this topic Cognitive dissonance from recent tweet about the news is fake Both sides are lying all the time Sometimes…the truth is the worst option to select Is the President’s lying, bad for the country? Aren’t results the determining factor? You are NOT…your good thoughts What you DO, is who you are Beto is being seriously considered as the Dem 2020 candidate Joel Pollack article about President and Congress finding middle Both sides agree on need, only the descriptor is an issue Call it a “Wence”, a combination of Wall and Fence Idea: Job finding app for people from other countries to come here Jobs aren’t listed or available till Americans have had 1st shot Sponsorship of the potential immigrant that assumes responsibility
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> [!note] Rough Transcript
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## Transcript
[0:03]
but a bum bumbum bumbum mm-hmm but bum bum jo-ann first on of course even on the weekends I know you're getting ready for church having your coffee and listening to me because you have joined either intentionally or or not coffee with Scott Adams the best part of the day except for the other parts that are good too and now that you're all here or at least many of you are here it's time to join me in this simultaneous up grab your mug your cup your chalice your Stein your container your glass your your receptacle of any kind that holds the beverage fill it with your favorite beverage I like coffee and join me for the simultaneous it oh what a fun day in
[1:04]
the simultaneous it oh what a fun day in the news it is and on social media I would like to first call your attention to the best thinking that I've ever seen on the Internet who might that be you ask where would I find the best thinking on the internet I just watched a podcast it's a Jordan Peterson podcast it's his own podcast in which he's interviewing Bjorn Lomborg now Bjorn Lomborg is famous for talking about the economics of climate change but he talks about the economics of all the big challenges climate change being one of them and then he ranks them based on economics now if you want to hear the smartest two people in the world talking it's actually crazy like I didn't think I would listen to something that was over an hour long but you can't stop
[2:06]
an hour long but you can't stop listening listen to Jordan Peterson talking to Bjorn Lomborg so if you want to find that Google Jordan Peterson and Bjorn Lomborg LOM Bo RG I've tweeted Lomborg around before now here's what's special about it I'm writing book now in which I'm a big part of the theme is that you can't really understand the world unless you understand certain disciplines and there are certain disciplines that are more important than others and learning how to make decisions and how to think about the world Jordan Peterson has obviously an expertise in the areas of psychology but in talking with Jordan Peterson we can see that he also has a firm enough understanding of economics and I'll tell you when you combine a firm enough
[3:07]
you when you combine a firm enough understanding of the basic concepts of economics you don't have to get down to look too low in the details with a with an understand understanding of psychology and a general high IQ and understanding of science you get something that you just don't get with other combinations of skills so if you take somebody who's a great artist and you you say yeah let's layer onto this a great understanding of literature that person is not really designed to think effectively but the trick is and the bad part is they think they are so here's here's one of the most true and annoying things about the world everyone thinks they know how to think we all think we have this thing called common sense we all think we know
[4:09]
called common sense we all think we know how to think but we do not we do not know how to think there are a few people who have who have pursued the disciplines that teach you how to do it and those people do know how to think Jordan Peterson is one of them Bjorn lumber Bjorn Lomborg is another now you could disagree with their conclusions because nothing is certain in this world but when you hear the the rational thought behind it it's just mind-blowing because it's so completely different than anything you'll see on the Internet so check that out alright now that I've talked about good thinking I would like to talk about some of the dumbest thinking that I've seen lately and I surfaced a lot of this dumb thinking with a dumb idea of my own which might be dumber might not be but I'm not really qualified to know and so I asked the following question yesterday on the Internet I said would it be possible to
[5:13]
Internet I said would it be possible to take co2 out of the air and through a chemical reaction turn it into some kind of you know concrete or brick making thing that you could turn it into bricks and I said make them like Legos and when I said like Legos I don't mean plastic LEGO pieces I mean something like a brick that can fit together with another brick so it's easy to build stuff with them now a lot of people now whenever I let me tell you I have a history of asking this type of question so for years I've been asking questions that go like this would it be possible to do X typically the answer I get on the Internet is 30% of the people say not only is it possible but here's a link to company that's already doing it and that would be about 30% of the people 70% of the people will say Hugh idiot that's
[6:13]
the people will say Hugh idiot that's not possible at the same time the other people are pointing me to links where it's already being done now I would like to mock in the name of Dale the worst comments that I got when I say the worst I mean people who do not think like Jordan Peterson or beyond Bjorn Lomborg if I may I would like to invite Dale to imitate the comments that bothered me the most in terms of not being rational to my question could Co to be harvested from the air and turned into bricks that you could build stuff with and the the comments that I got that bothered me the most are and I quote ho-ho-hold Scot co2 is flat food it's flat food do you want to starve the plants let's discuss yes
[7:16]
to starve the plants let's discuss yes co2 is plant food yes greenhouses pump co2 into the greenhouse because more is better for the greenhouse and if that were the only variable in the entire universe you would be right Dale co2 is plant food end of discussion end of discussion the more the better so I've been tweeting back to people and asking them if if their culture has the concept of too much you've heard of cultures you know there are primitive cultures and some animals I guess who don't have the concept of zero so if you can imagine some cultures so primitive they don't really have a concept of zero but apparently on the internet there are a lot of people who don't have the concept of too much now if it's true the co2 is causing warming
[8:20]
if it's true the co2 is causing warming and that the warming could become too much then yes you could feed the plants until you destroyed the planet with heat because at some point there's too much if you don't understand that too much plant food could ever be too much under any scenario you do not belong talking on the Internet now others say others say that what happens if you take too much co2 out of the atmosphere if you got too good at it the plants would die to which I say I think we would figure out to slow down before that happened and according to the scientists we could take a whole lot of co2 out of the air before we put a dent in what they imagine is the or they predict is the the warming so the
[9:24]
predict is the the warming so the dumbest thing that you'll ever hear is co2 is plant food please stop saying that it just is so dumb it's true it's a hundred percent true but saying it acts as though there's only one variable in the world right it's sort of like saying you can't drown because people drink water that's sort of like saying that yeah I know analogies are not persuasive that's what you're going to say next but the point is I'm making a point that most things have a level that is too much if you think co2 is the only thing that doesn't have a too much level well that'd say that if you can back that up that might be a point but but if you if you think there might be a concept of too much co2 stop saying co2 is plant food end of
[10:25]
stop saying co2 is plant food end of story it's done here's what other people said when I said could you take co2 out of the atmosphere and build a brick they said oh yes you can Scott it's called a tree it's called the tree okay I don't think if you're if you're gonna build a house you don't start by planting a tree do you because it seems to me that time is a variable all right you don't plant a tree to build a house you might use a tree that's already grown you might plant trees because planting trees is good for a variety of reasons but if you want to scrub co2 out of the air planting a tree is not a substitute at least not a perfect substitute for scrubbing co2 out of the atmosphere and making breaks now some
[11:29]
atmosphere and making breaks now some people say my god Scott how dumb of you you it would take way too much energy to convert to the co2 into something useful now of course that's true so it's true that as far as we know nobody's been able to scrub co2 out of the air at a reasonable cost and energy that wouldn't cause more co2 in the production of the energy that it would - then they would that it would benefit but here's the thing couldn't you say that or something like it for every new technology wasn't it true that nothing worked until it did now some have said I saw a skeptic say that somebody who was pulling the co2 out of the air and turning it into
[12:31]
out of the air and turning it into plastic that they you need to remove an amount of air that's the size of the the volume of the Empire State Building to create a little piece of plastic this much now if technology never improved I would say well we're done but it seems to me that all the companies that are working on this problem have certainly considered how much energy goes into it and there are quite a few people who are funded and working on this is it possible that everyone working in this area has not thought of what you trolls on the internet have thought of that there's too much energy involved I have to think they all thought of that I have to think that a hundred percent of the people working on this problem have thought of that first first it's not the thing that they all forgot I will guarantee you that everyone working
[13:33]
will guarantee you that everyone working on this field of changing co2 into something useful whether it's Jeff fuel or plastics or sneakers and all those things are happening by the way I would guess with a high degree of certainty that a hundred percent of those people have considered the energy usage as their top priority because that's the problem they're trying to fix and speaking of Bill Gates somebody just mentioned him one of his companies and I forget which one is involved in turning co2 into jet fuel which is an especially good an especially good process if you can make it work because jet fuel is one of those things that you can't you can't use solar power to power your jet so if you could turn the co2 into jet fuel and at a reasonable energy use of a great idea now here's the thing do you think that Bill Gates who invested in that company
[14:34]
Bill Gates who invested in that company didn't think about the fact that it would caught it would use more energy to create than it would be worth do you think that Bill Gates or or even whoever is investing for him didn't have that question in their head so I get what you're saying that we're not yet able to do it but the fact that there are so many people working on it certainly suggests that number one they thought of this problem and number two they have enough hypotheses or directions or things to test that they think they can beat it so it seems to be a loser thing to say that the early version of something doesn't work and therefore it can never work because we don't know how to solve this problem when everybody working on it knows that's the problem that's the problem they're solving is the energy imbalance all right so there's that I tweeted something today that caused some fairly massive
[15:34]
today that caused some fairly massive cognitive dissonance which is always fun to look at because you can see how people signal their cognitive dissonance and I'm gonna read my tweet so that you can get all of its goodness in its exact form and it was a response to a tweet in which Judah Maccabee --ts that's his Twitter name talked about some statistics that show that the GOP in particular used to care a lot about lying but in recent years very recent years they don't care that much at all so so Republicans went from caring a lot about lying to not really carry that much in politics so specifically we're talking about politics and so Judah not his real name said to clarify talking about that that poll this is the this is an amazing statistic not just because of
[16:36]
an amazing statistic not just because of the drop that's the drop and how much they cared about lying but but but because this is just a large number of Republicans think Trump is a liar and have decided that honesty must not be that important so that's his assumption about Republic what Republicans think I replied to that by saying it suggests that Republicans understand the news is fake the other side is lying all the time and directionally true hyperbole plus winning is better than technical honesty and losing and what did people say about that well let me talk about that first so which of these which of these statements I just make are not true is it true this is my tweet they're Republicans understand that the news is fake that's true right Republicans understand that the news is sometimes inaccurate it's out of context is fake
[17:38]
inaccurate it's out of context is fake so the entire canvas that everybody's working on is artificial and fake it's all it's all lies and then I said the other side is lying all the time meaning Democrats is that true yeah that's true it's sure that both sides are lying all the time they leave on contacts they you know exaggerate they use hyperbole they use fear when it's not really you know the right place to use it etc so that's true and then I said directionally true hyperbole meaning lying but in the right direction so an example that would be if you said the immigrants coming across the border are you know raping and killing more than regular people but it turns out that they're they're just raping and killing an average amount it still gets you to the same place you don't want any raping and killing so if you could have less of that everybody be better off so I think out you all agree
[18:42]
better off so I think out you all agree with that and I said the winning is better than being technically honest and losing I think everybody agrees with that too would you rather be alive or would you rather tell the terrorists the truth well I would rather be alive and I would lie it to a terrorist to save your life too because I would rather you be alive than I tell the truth to a terrorist so there are plenty of reasons why the truth is the worst tool for the job and politics is certainly the best example that so how did people respond to me saying a bunch of things that are just obviously true it's obviously true that the news is fake it's obviously true both sides use hyperbole and it's obviously true that getting a good result is better than a bad result all true stuff now it also blows apart one of the most strongly held beliefs on the left that the president's lying is hurting the country and when I point out
[19:46]
hurting the country and when I point out that it's just the entire context is everybody lying so in that context the best you can do is at least get a good result it's hard to argue against that so how do they argue when they have no argument they do it this way lol look at this guy lol ha I thought his cartoon characters were just characters but it turns out they're just versions of himself wah wah wah lol so when you see the lol without a reason it's because they don't have one but they're sure they do have one they just can't really quite verbalize it all they know is that the world view got blown apart by my tweet because nobody can really argue with the point that both sides are lying all the time that's hard to argue with nobody can
[20:46]
that's hard to argue with nobody can really argue with the fact that the news is is fake on both sides pretty much all the time either either at least by leaving out context all the time those are hard to argue with so instead you get the lol my favorite one here's my favorite critic this morning so in response to that tweet in which it's just completely true and everybody agrees with it here's what somebody says to my tweet that's completely true and everybody agrees with everything I said you're better than that Scott you're better than that to which I say I'm definitely not better than that I just did that I'm definitely not better than the thing I just did because the thing I just did is exactly how good I am people are not and I talk about this all the
[21:48]
are not and I talk about this all the time you were not your good thoughts your good thoughts are not who you are what you do is who you are so if I do something that's who I am you know it may not be the whole picture because I do more than one thing but what I do that's who I am it's not my good thoughts but those are now Who I am and then I left them a cup linked to a copy of my book win Bigley in which I show that I have been paid a large amount of money to write on this topic so so there I've noticed that baito / orc is being highly highly considered by the Democrats to run for president here's what's interesting about baito now bado is a an adult white
[22:53]
about baito now bado is a an adult white male and under normal situations I would say to you there is no way that Democrats will support an adult at white male because they're sort of the party of we don't like adult white males but there's one exception if that adult white male is young and good-looking you know it if he's sexy what does that say for the party of women then it's also the party of the majority of LGBTQ folks if you have this weird situation where the Democrats are sort of toying with a boy toy as a candidate now but who would they rather talk about now think about this the the Democrats would like to have a president that they would like to focus on and talk about for forty-eight
[23:54]
focus on and talk about for forty-eight four to eight years who would they like to focus on and talk about it's just their job let's say your job is the news who do you want to think about and talk about how about a good-looking tall white guy it feels to me like beta O'Rourke is being pushed forward for reasons that have absolute nothing to do with his policies am I wrong about that this seems entirely boy-toy related to me it just seems that sky you're better than that yeah now let's talk about the President and Congress I tweeted around a Joel Pollak article that you should all should read I just we did that a few minutes ago about the president and the potential for find a middle ground with Congress
[24:56]
for find a middle ground with Congress and with this whole wall situation correct me if I'm wrong is it wrong to say that Democrats and Republicans already agree on the wall is just that we have a branding problem and a political problem because Republicans would say we need a wall wherever it makes sense stuff a wall and then we'll use other methods where we don't need a solid wall Democrats would say well sure you could have a wall in a few places where it makes sense to have a wall but we don't want a wall where it doesn't make sense to have a wall those are identical views and they both want to spend money to get it done the only thing that's different at this point is the way they're referring to it is it a fence or a wall so I would like to propose the following compromise we don't call it a fence and we don't call it a wall we'll call it a combination of
[25:58]
it a wall we'll call it a combination of a wall and a fence or a whence W ence now we're not building a wall we're not building a fence we're building a went a went is part wall wherever it makes sense to have a wall and part of fence wherever it makes sense to have a fence does a fence make sense oh my god that rhymes if you name is pence do you want a fence it makes sense hence let's get ourselves a Wentz now I don't think this idea has any
probably doesn't have any legs at all except that it's it's way fun to say it isn't it I just realized this might be stickier than I think when I said combine a wall and a fence and make it a whence how many of you had to say that out loud where you were yeah alright here's the honest question wherever you
[26:58]
here's the honest question wherever you are
are did you say out loud the word went as soon as I said you know combination of wall and fences or whence did you say it out loud because if you did it's sticky if you didn't then you then it just passed over and will have no you have no effect commenced the when's it does arrives with everything doesn't it Oh whence it's like a pence I didn't know no no people are saying no they did not say it out loud one said yes no no no no no okay so most of you did not say it out loud so that would indicate that it is not viral
[28:04]
all right I have a suggestion for fixing immigration southern immigration are you ready for this this is my suggestion for fixing immigration in a way that everybody will agree with an app and it goes like this suppose you have a job app that would be immigrants can apply for jobs on the app and these would be people who are living south of the border of their Mexican or their Central American and they would like a job in the United States and they want to apply for it so imagine there's an app so if they have a friend who's got a smartphone or they can find an internet connection somewhere they can apply but it would have the following conditions following conditions they can't apply for a job unless it's been open for one month for Americans only so the only jobs that are available are ones that haven't been filled for one month and you'd have to
[29:04]
filled for one month and you'd have to have to be able to demonstrate that in some way now imagine that the app allows people to negotiate the the the language difference so there's some translation or whatever but they can apply for a job and lined one up so that if they can get to the United States there's already a job waiting now that solves the first problem of are they contributing more than they're taking out of the system the second thing is that they would also be able to use the app to negotiate housing so they might find let's say to other immigrants who also wanted a job at the same let's say big farm and they would figure out that they can share a room so be maybe three of them in a room whatever so the app would figure out it before they came across the border they would have a job lined up a economical place to stay transportation to get there and then the last thing I think is health care so perhaps there's a way to
[30:06]
health care so perhaps there's a way to have temporary health care just for the benefit of the immigrant community just own sort of internal deal and maybe they pay for it maybe they maybe it cost them $50 to you know a month or something and maybe it only covers the biggest stuff so it's possible it only covers some real big stuff but they you know use a doctor on demand or something for the little stuff somebody says it sounds like h-1b visas a little bit so it's sort of the poor man's version of an h-1b visa so the idea is this that you could have unlimited immigration so that's yeah if the people on the on the Left like that it would be unlimited so long as people can demonstrate that they can have a job a place to stay a way to get there and at least enough health care that they're paying on their own for the emergency stuff the big expensive stuff could you get to a point
[31:06]
expensive stuff could you get to a point fairly quickly where every immigrant is value added and then if you could get to that point the the question of eventual citizenship etc you can really kind of put those off indefinitely because everybody would be coming in with a legal status and you'd be able to attract them you'd know what they're doing and everybody would be doing something good and so that's that's an idea I'm putting out there so what can't you solve with a nap nothing so a lot of people have been saying we should hire the immigrants to build the wall I have also said things like that by usually joking here's why you can't hire immigrants to build the wall are you ready it's all done with big equipment the the wall as it is designed is pretty much one guy with a crane and a couple of guys saying over
[32:07]
crane and a couple of guys saying over here put that you know there's like a backhoe and a crane and that's about it so it's not actually that labor-intensive weirdly enough
yeah I don't think you can I don't think you need much labor to build the fence because it's mostly big equipment stuff you need cranes and backhoes and you know it's not like you need guys with shovels you don't really need that cost is in the materials that is correct it's a materials thing mostly why don't they have sponsorship of immigrants that's a good question what about sponsorship what about the sponsor takes responsibility for the I don't healthcare of the immigrant or
[33:08]
don't healthcare of the immigrant or something about them so that so that they are more likely to be economically positive all right well now correct me if I'm wrong but a lot of you have used this term whence for for a term that isn't sticky a lot of people are using it let's build the when's all right
obviously in your comments because we're kind of interesting at the moment all right that's all I got for now I will talk to you later